[Official] Fringe Ep. 3.13 Discussion

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Re: [Official] Fringe Ep. 3.13 Discussion

Postby JacobsMom on Sun Feb 13, 2011 1:01 am

supermodel wrote:I didn't hate this ep, but I see where JacobsMom is coming from. As it stands right now, this is a variation on a standard soap opera storyline. Guy accidentally sleeps with the wrong twin, she turns up pregnant, and he has to decide between the twins. (OK, usually on soaps one twin is evil and gets pregnant on purpose, but whatever.) If we were in Port Charles, the next step would be for the evil twin to lose the baby but pretend to be still pregnant. Lots of fake lab tests and possibly a kidnapping ensue.

But have faith! The Fringe writers are a lot more talented than soap writers, and they might have an interesting twist up their sleeves! I do recall a time when I thought parallel universes would be a stupid storyline, and I was 100% against a Peter/Olivia romance until Sam Weiss' comments about the machine. You never know what could happen, we're not even sure Fauxlivia wants this baby. She doesn't seem like mom material.


Thanks supermodel! :) I do have faith in these guys and don't plan to quit watching anytime soon. I just hate that the story line had to go the route of a pregnancy and couldn't use some other plot device to bring Peter back to his old universe. I feel that tptb have tried to change what we saw from the beginning of the season with the red universe and it's militaristic Fringe unit. Now the Red Fringe team seems more like a bunch of school kids joking around. We still see fun sides of our Fringe division but at least they aren't acting like this!

I know that tptb are trying to raise the ratings here on Friday nights but this episode didn't help from what I saw. :(
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Re: [Official] Fringe Ep. 3.13 Discussion

Postby DarthLocke on Sun Feb 13, 2011 4:25 am

JacobsMom wrote:
DarthLocke wrote:
JacobsMom wrote::thumbsdown: As Bart Simpson would say, "meh." This has to be one of my all time least favorite episodes of Fringe. I guess this pregnancy story line came true but I really hate that it did. At times, I felt like I was watching some daytime soap opera on TV instead of a good Fringe episode that kept my interest as usual. I was almost wishing that Other Olivia had been infected by these bugs by the time this one was over with. :roll:

Dislikes:

At this point in the season, I am really hating this red world and all it's differences. Some of the characters on this side have become routine and boring to me.
Frank and Lincoln's new hair styles! What is going on with that? A new hair stylist on the set??
All the red references...
The lab scientist with the crush on Charlie!
Lincoln as the new man in charge. It should have been Charlie, IMO.
The little pregnancy clues throughout the show..( "It matters what's inside" says Olivia to Charlie, the doctor with the test stick waiting for it to turn pink, the Queen beetle at the end and probably even more.... :whistle: )
Lincoln telling the secret to Olivia immediately! (Is he 10 years old or what?) I thought it made him look stupid.
Walternate and his mistress :roll:

Things I did like:

Charlie...I miss his character on our side and his competence and skills
Frank...What a great guy who really loves the Other Olivia so much
Astrid...Loved how she told the team/Lincoln that they didn't know what they were doing! I also loved that Frank thought she was pretty cool. :)


I can't wait to get back to our side of the story line once again....


Awww. It was just a little Valentines Day Madness. No harm done...Oh wait, there's a baby now :lol:

I personally think those guys are that way because they are living life a little more in the moment, because they now that there world is on the verge of it's end. It makes them a bit more ego ridden and silly, but at the same time there was something very 'family' about it. Like when people get together with their best friends from collage or high school...it's like you can't help but to revert a little backwards.

I actually would totally root for any Astrid-Frank pairing. I would love to get more involved with either of them.
I thought it was sad that Charlie didn't get promoted, but Lincoln has a lot of scientific-dorkometer expertise.

Another thing I liked is that even though there were these silly-lovey-moments, there were also these serious moments, Olivia being pregnant and loosing Frank, Lincoln wondering if he can really measure up to Broyles and he almost froze to death not to mention he pining for Olivia, Astrid's reaction to Frank when he said, where can I get one of those, and the fact that Charlie is alone. It shows that these guys might start taking harder looks at themselves...


Sorry Darth, but I absolutely hated the whole thing pretty much. I know I am in the minority on this one but TPTB are going to have to do a good job of convincing me down the road that this was really an important part of the whole story line. I didn't care that much for the love triangle before, even though it was a clever idea, but now that it involves a pregnancy, I'm already hating the whole concept. I can't see waiting around for this baby to be born and dragging this out for so long. I still don't like the Other Olivia and especially don't after this episode.

We probably won't be seeing much more of Frank if at all. He made his attentions pretty clear by cleaning out the apartment.

I don't need more romance/relationship plots on this show but want it to go back to being about saving our world from this mad scientist Walternate and the mythology of Fringe.


Hey. I didn't like last weeks episode, so I am no one to talk. :lol:

But I felt this episode sets us up for many things...serious things...

1. The baby/child might also be able to use the machine...so Walternate may step around saving Peter and instead eliminate him.

2. Walternate and Brandonate seem pretty intent on using the cortexifan and have now learned that the younger the subject, the less chance for side effects and better capable the subject to use abilities. Imagine using your grandchild as the youngest cortexifan subject to date!

3. Although this is more of my theory, then anything else, I believe the baby will have a doppleganger that already exists in one of the universes, They could do a doppleganger that doesn't originate (like Peter) from where he or she is raised. This could bring the first people and/or a third universe into perspective. It could even play out that baby doesn't live, but that the doppleganger does...because I would imagine if I were right, the writers would reveal this in the backwards way, so we wouldn't have to wait for the baby to age.

Just to help understand what in the heck I am saying in Terms of Realities Think: Abrams Star Trek: Spock Prime meets Alternate Spock, and then to truly compare this FRINGE-Theory to Star Trek we would have to add the original Star Trek's 'mirror universe' onto it. So Spock Prime (Purple Spock) and two semi opposite younger alternate Spocks: Red and Blue Spock. O.o

It could go something like this

Once there was a purple universe that came to a point in their technology that they could destroy themselves and they used this machine...the machine eventually creates a new universe, a blue universe where some of the people tried to hide the machine after many wars in the new blue reality, but because the blue derives from the purple, it could always have potential to find it's way back to some point in time in the purples' previous universe, but doing so would create an alternate reality, making the cross over a red universe....and now from either universe it could happen again....

Anyways, everything is wait and see, as always :P
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Re: [Official] Fringe Ep. 3.13 Discussion

Postby AroundMyFinger12 on Sun Feb 13, 2011 2:24 pm

I just hate that the story line had to go the route of a pregnancy and couldn't use some other plot device to bring Peter back to his old universe.


Yes, I'm back and I have calmed down since then. Anyways, what other plot device can they give Peter to go back though?

First, he has no ties over there anymore (He had Walternate but he duped him, He had Elizabeth but she is a stranger to him, He had AltOlivia (who pretended to be Olivia and I am sure he will not trust her anymore) and the fact that the machine is over there as well.

Peter has no reason to go back except finding out he had gotten AltOlivia pregnant.
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Re: [Official] Fringe Ep. 3.13 Discussion

Postby DarthLocke on Sun Feb 13, 2011 2:41 pm

AroundMyFinger12 wrote:
I just hate that the story line had to go the route of a pregnancy and couldn't use some other plot device to bring Peter back to his old universe.


Yes, I'm back and I have calmed down since then. Anyways, what other plot device can they give Peter to go back though?

First, he has no ties over there anymore (He had Walternate but he duped him, He had Elizabeth but she is a stranger to him, He had AltOlivia (who pretended to be Olivia and I am sure he will not trust her anymore) and the fact that the machine is over there as well.

Peter has no reason to go back except finding out he had gotten AltOlivia pregnant.


Yes. And he might not need to go back now...Walternate might start to wonder if the baby has Peternate's genetic properties, if so, then Peter becomes a problem instead of a solution...of course there are also 2 machines now...
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Re: [Official] Fringe Ep. 3.13 Discussion

Postby sooie159 on Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:44 pm

I can't believe what little faith you have in these writers!!!

I watched episode 3.12 with my father who has never seen an episode of "Fringe." As I was trying to explain the alternate universe, the machine, the two Olivias (Walters, etc.) and all the other non-sense... I realized something: For me to take things like this seriously, the writers have to be pretty damn good!!!

I mean, seriously!!! This all started for me one night when I was bored and turned on the tv and all of these people were sick on a plane!!! From there we were introduced to this weird stuff called "The Pattern," and from there we progressed through to the WTC Towers ending season one. Fast forward all the way to now, and we've got some pretty crazy stuff going on, but the awesome writers on this show brought us here.

My first thought is that this is a little out there, but the whole thing is a little out there!!! We've trusted the writers this far - I say let them run the show and let us be entertained by it!!! They've done pretty well so far...
¡Viva los porcinos! GO HOGS GO!!!
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Re: [Official] Fringe Ep. 3.13 Discussion

Postby SmokeyD on Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:02 pm

sooie159 wrote:I can't believe what little faith you have in these writers!!!


It's less of a matter of not having faith in the writers as is it is knowing 'people'.

A person is smart, but 'people' are stupid. (Herd mentalities at play)

I trust the writers, but in looking at the ratings it can shake my faith in people on the whole. While only time will tell if the all important numbers rebound, it says more that 'people' are a skiddish bunch (And fickle too)...

Faith is important, but it's also up to the real fans if it means what saves this show...
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Re: [Official] Fringe Ep. 3.13 Discussion

Postby supermodel on Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:59 pm

I trusted the Lost writers for years, I even gave them a pass on Nikki and Paolo. And then they gave us the magic glowing cave.
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Re: [Official] Fringe Ep. 3.13 Discussion

Postby deneph on Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:53 pm

I didn't mind the glowing cave. It wasn't what I was expecting but it was still a great episode to end the show with. And really, it's only tv.
I'm not psyched about the baby thing but I do trust the writers to do something intersting with it.
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Re: [Official] Fringe Ep. 3.13 Discussion

Postby b3rt4 on Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:11 pm

supermodel wrote:I trusted the Lost writers for years, I even gave them a pass on Nikki and Paolo. And then they gave us the magic glowing cave.

^^^
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Re: [Official] Fringe Ep. 3.13 Discussion

Postby SmokeyD on Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:47 am

supermodel wrote:I trusted the Lost writers for years, I even gave them a pass on Nikki and Paolo. And then they gave us the magic glowing cave.


Wow, deep... I never wanted to make that connection but since it's out there I guess it (hopefully not) is appropriate...

Please, let this not be another cruel finger of fate... Just say 'No' to the Abrahm's Curse!!!...
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Re: [Official] Fringe Ep. 3.13 Discussion

Postby sooie159 on Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:52 am

supermodel wrote:I trusted the Lost writers for years, I even gave them a pass on Nikki and Paolo. And then they gave us the magic glowing cave.



As much as I hate to have my own words used against me... that was a truly epic line.

+1 to supermodel!!!
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Re: [Official] Fringe Ep. 3.13 Discussion

Postby DarthLocke on Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:58 am

SmokeyD wrote:
supermodel wrote:I trusted the Lost writers for years, I even gave them a pass on Nikki and Paolo. And then they gave us the magic glowing cave.


Wow, deep... I never wanted to make that connection but since it's out there I guess it (hopefully not) is appropriate...

Please, let this not be another cruel finger of fate... Just say 'No' to the Abrahm's Curse!!!...



Just as it was stated on one of the earlier episodes of Fringe, Magic can not be distinguished from advanced technology. Which is Aurther C. Clarke's third law:

Clarke's First Law: When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.
"Hazards of Prophecy: The Failure of Imagination" in Profiles of the Future (1962)
Perhaps the adjective "elderly" requires definition. In physics, mathematics, and astronautics it means over thirty; in the other disciplines, senile decay is sometimes postponed to the forties. There are, of course, glorious exceptions; but as every researcher just out of college knows, scientists of over fifty are good for nothing but board meetings, and should at all costs be kept out of the laboratory!
"Hazards of Prophecy: The Failure of Imagination" in Profiles of the Future (1962; as revised in 1973)
Clarke's Second Law: The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
"Hazards of Prophecy: The Failure of Imagination" in Profiles of the Future (1962)
Clarke's Third Law: Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
Profiles of the Future (revised edition, 1973)




The 'heart of the Island' would be considered advanced technology by modern standard. The same thing can be said about The First People and their technology along with the various things presented every week during the show. We are watching shows about science FICTION. I think people have try to understand that using sci-fi elements is a way to move the characters forward and realize that most Abrams works are about the nature and exploration of humanity and the decisions we all have to make as life throws things unexpected at us. What makes the show good is that we end up caring about a lot of the characters involved. We want them to find resolutions in a world filled with complications.

This baby has the potential to once again push the envelope in more than one way. Fringe is about Clark's second law--doing what is in any current situation considered impossible. With the show, it's also about being on the fringe of getting to know oneself.

To quote Walter: "Open your mind, son, or someone will do it for you."
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Re: [Official] Fringe Ep. 3.13 Discussion

Postby WJames on Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:28 am

DarthLocke wrote:The 'heart of the Island' would be considered advanced technology by modern standard.

Nope! And the giant dildo thingy that has to be inserted into the island's but*hole to make it all work is not good writing.

supermodel wrote:I trusted the Lost writers for years, I even gave them a pass on Nikki and Paolo. And then they gave us the magic glowing cave.

:cool:
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Re: [Official] Fringe Ep. 3.13 Discussion

Postby SmokeyD on Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:17 pm

I appreciate the idea of Magic not being decernable for advanced science, but that is a 'better sell' for the religious peoples of Richard Alpert's time... "We" (Contempories) are completely capabable of accepting science as an explanantion. TPTB didn't need to explain the science in detail 'pre se', but at least acknowledge that there was a clockwork behind the 'golden shower'...
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Re: [Official] Fringe Ep. 3.13 Discussion

Postby DarthLocke on Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:15 pm

SmokeyD wrote:I appreciate the idea of Magic not being decernable for advanced science, but that is a 'better sell' for the religious peoples of Richard Alpert's time... "We" (Contempories) are completely capabable of accepting science as an explanantion. TPTB didn't need to explain the science in detail 'pre se', but at least acknowledge that there was a clockwork behind the 'golden shower'...


Well that depends on what the writers really wanted LOST to be about. IMO a person can deduce some mechanisms with the Island, as not all people presented in the FS move on with each other. This in itself suggests symmatics. Light and Water are good physical ways to mirror it's own metaphor, because they are things seen, but they are not solid, they are moving, ever changing, shapeshifting---as evolution is. The time of albert is actually more like the time of today as alchemy is fringe science of the past and they (like Newton) had the understanding that human nature and nature where entangled not seperating science from philiosphy as to "know" is a human drive--so science is us pushing to understand it allowing us to create tools (technology) in which we decide for what purpose we us the tools for...but in that sense those decisions come from how we feel (something unseen) about our experiences...

Even in FRINGE we go back to the belief of the alchemists as the first people had technology that is considered 'advanced' by both universes (and the viewers) 2010 standard, which may be a nod to "astronaut theory", depending if First people really derive from either universe, or if they time traveled there...
So with LOT just because you can not "fully" see it, doesn't mean it's not there.

IMO FRINGE actually explains what LOST and Alias didn't in the physical sense.--That you can take what FRINGE teaches you about timelines and apply it to the nature of the Island or Rambaldi. But the writers of LOST chose to make the show more about the spiritual developement of a specific group of people, but it is the spiritual 'unseen nature' (like essence or conscieness) that drives the physical mechanics of the Island...it's that nature that is 'along side' humanity always...and in the corporeal, people have to push themselves to save themselves, through the Island (this is what the smoke monster does) so they can "go" some place better-some-when, later, but the need is comes from this transition astral plane that is connectet to the corporeal experience.

Fringe may be backwards to that concept, as it directly presents that the physical-corporeal is effecting their innate-experience, however FRINGE has not yet proven if there are limitations of course corrections of timelines, because we don't have enough time and spaces (realities and each's histories) to prove if they both derive at course corrections, but it is clear that each of the 2 realities seen, show some kind of dynamic of patterns between them...

-- Merged Double Post --

WJames wrote:
DarthLocke wrote:The 'heart of the Island' would be considered advanced technology by modern standard.

Nope! And the giant dildo thingy that has to be inserted into the island's but*hole to make it all work is not good writing.



Ok light is essence, but it is also electromagnitism--the island has pockets of it everywhere. Lost made a connection that this electromagnetic force is "the god partical" . like with all things living, one can use it in certain ways, but the catch was the mythology was dual natured so that the good particle was also the same particle of actual essence and or consciencness. It suggests that the inner nature of "collected" perception is the driving force of the corporeal. 'the sub conscience rules all and brings things to the surface...in one life time or another. The goal was to eventually find a better place. Once can deduce that the FS offered a window into that possibility, but they had to let go of their memory of the most current 'past' to move on to that place and that it was experience of them being together -struggling together, that eventually pushes 'groups of people' to place of less struggling...that is what the Island does and it why it can tie all varitions of magor theologies and philosophies because we are variating, because that is what evolution does and thus our ever changing understanding of it.
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