Are they starting to make Olivia too perfect and superwoman?

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Are they starting to make Olivia too perfect and superwoman?

Postby AroundMyFinger12 on Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:57 pm

You know this show is really starting to annoy me with this Olivia superwoman storyline. I mean really? What are the writers trying to prove? That olivia is the most perfect human being with great morals, kick buttness and now all these special powers? It is really starting to make the other characters look very inferior against her and its not fair. I can buy this when the show was called Buffy but even then, Buffy had no control over it, it was clearly bought down but to make an average FBI agent into this Superwoman is utterly unrealistic even by Fringe's standard.

The show should start developing about what makes Peter so special regarding this machine and why him. We already know how "special" Olivia is and judging from the newest spoiler regarding her, this is getting tiresome and overkill. We get it, Olivia is a supersoldier.

Why can't the writers give Peter his own interesting storyline that is fair against Olivia's since he wasn't doing anything for the last 15 episodes...in fact, he wasn't doing anything for the last 3 years.
Last edited by AroundMyFinger12 on Mon Feb 28, 2011 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Are they starting to make Olivia too perfect and superwo

Postby Devil's Arcade on Mon Feb 28, 2011 2:01 pm

I think they are making Peter too involved.. terrible character.
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Re: Are they starting to make Olivia too perfect and superwo

Postby AroundMyFinger12 on Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:16 pm

There is a term for what Olivia is, she is a Mary Sue.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue

A Mary Sue (sometimes just Sue), in fanfiction, is a fictional character with overly idealized and hackneyed mannerisms, lacking noteworthy flaws, and primarily functioning as a wish-fulfillment fantasy for the author or reader. Perhaps the single underlying feature of all characters described as "Mary Sues" is that they are too ostentatious for the audience's taste, or that the author seems to favor the character too highly. The author may seem to push how exceptional and wonderful the "Mary Sue" character is on his or her audience, sometimes leading the audience to dislike or even resent the character fairly quickly; such a character could be described as an "author's pet".


A more detailed description which is right on the money from http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue

The prototypical Mary Sue is an original female character in a fanfic who obviously serves as an idealized version of the author mainly for the purpose of Wish Fulfillment. She's exotically beautiful, often having an unusual hair or eye color, and has a similarly cool and exotic name.

She's exceptionally talented in an implausibly wide variety of areas, and may possess skills that are rare or nonexistent in the canon setting. She also lacks any realistic, or at least story-relevant, character flaws —

[b]either that or her "flaws" are obviously meant to be endearing.
- At first Olivia's flaws were clearly a reason why the audience didn't relate to her as much but after this whole Fauxlivia/Olivia switch, people all of a sudden fell in love with those flaws? :lol: That's just who Olivia is? :lol: Reminds of the episode for Marcia got hit in the face with that football, Jan figured everyone will love her less, but then bam, she was still loved

Where do I start? Olivia's ability to cross over to another universe, able to take down 5 guys in one punch, able to be connect to a kid she never met before, was psychicly connected to Nick lane, was able to see buildings glimmer, see Peter glimmer, turn off lights with her mind, had superhearing, was able to start fires with her mind when she was a child, was able to survive a car crash,

She has an unusual and dramatic Back Story. The Cortexiphan trials and her setting fires with her mind and crossing over to other universes

The canon protagonists are all overwhelmed with admiration for her beauty, wit, courage and other virtues, and are quick to adopt her into their nakama, even characters who are usually antisocial and untrusting Peter always making his decisions to stay or go based on what Olivia wants


if any character doesn't love her, that character gets an extremely unsympathetic portrayal. ( Yes, peter loved Olivia but he loved the WRONG Olivia and the writers did give Peter a unsympathetic portrayal.

1. Peter told Olivia that Fauxlivia was less intense and smiled easier
2. Peter didn't say anything while Olivia was clearly upset. he Just sat there emotionless
3. Olivia recieved the book that was meant for fauxlivia
4. Peter gave Olivia the wrong coffee

)

She has some sort of especially close relationship to the author's favorite canon character — their love interest, illegitimate child, never-before-mentioned sister, etc. - Rachel comes to mind for the "never before mentioned sister and Peter as the love interest

Other than that,

the canon characters are quickly reduced to awestruck cheerleaders, watching from the sidelines as Mary Sue outstrips them in their areas of expertise and solves problems that have stymied them for the entire series.- Peter and walter's smarts have saved the day countless times but its OLIVIA who goes out and catches the bad guys and gets all the credit. Peter and walter were in the FBI building while OLIVIA was the one who saw the glimmering building (again, Peter and walter are sidelined)


Perfect description of how Olivia is a Mary sue, a very unlikable Mary Sue. What happened to the average Olivia Dunham that everybody can relate to? What happened to writing for female leads that doesn't involve them being perfect human beings?
Last edited by AroundMyFinger12 on Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Are they starting to make Olivia too perfect and superwo

Postby shirtlessfrank on Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:43 pm

Olivia is the hero of the story. And quit frankly I keep reading these posts all over the Internet about Peter which have the exact same tone and substance... Like it was from the same person.

Stop hatin on Olivia and just enjoy the show.
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Re: Are they starting to make Olivia too perfect and superwo

Postby AroundMyFinger12 on Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:52 pm

I am entitled to my opinion and if its Ok for everyone to pick on Peter, then i can also pick on Olivia. Not sure why its OK for everyone to pick on Peter's mistakes and flaws but I am not allowed to state MY problems with Olivia? Yep, Olivia is a Mary sue all right.

I don't care if Olivia is the hero, they can make her a REALISTIC hero without giving her superpowers not to mention, make the other characters look stupid and dumb. its funny that after this whole Fauxlivia/Olivia thing, Olivia comes out smelling like roses while Peter is the bad guy. :lol:
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Re: Are they starting to make Olivia too perfect and superwo

Postby Devil's Arcade on Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:58 pm

I still never see anybody picking on Peter... :|
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Re: Are they starting to make Olivia too perfect and superwo

Postby AroundMyFinger12 on Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:07 pm

Devil's Arcade wrote:I still never see anybody picking on Peter... :|


well, people were picking on Peter during the whole Peter/Fauxlivia/OLivia thing and still are.
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Re: Are they starting to make Olivia too perfect and superwo

Postby Devil's Arcade on Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:10 pm

You're the only person who sees that... because you are - wait for it - in love. :|
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Re: Are they starting to make Olivia too perfect and superwo

Postby myrtus on Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:12 pm

I do think she's rather Mary-Sueish. She's good-hearted, good-looking, generous, selfless, brave, hard-working, smart, etc... Most of the harm is caused to her, she doesn't have a dark side. But that has been like this for most part of the show, so I don't know, what's the problem now.That said:

1. She's the main character and she's designed to appeal to younger females, who like role models on TV. They already have the Bishops for people, who like more layered characters, that can be good, but they have a dark side, that manifests itself every now and then.

2. It's not distracting. As I said, the other two main characters make up for her Mary-Sueishness.

3. Although this is not the first time, I've seen this accusation, even back in S1, this time it comes from you, Patty. Which means, this thread is going to degenerate soon and I'm already regretting taking part in this. For instance, while I've been typing this, you've already posted a reply about Peter Bishop, which means your initial intention wasn't to talk about Olivia, but about Peter, who I love to pieces, but about about whom I'm not going to talk with you.

-- Merged Double Post --

Devil's Arcade wrote:I still never see anybody picking on Peter... :|

You probably have a functioning brain.
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Re: Are they starting to make Olivia too perfect and superwo

Postby AroundMyFinger12 on Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:28 pm

She's the main character and she's designed to appeal to younger females, who like role models on TV.


I like my role models to be realistic, actually. Olivia was definitely a great role model in season 1 where she was your average FBI agent (reminds me of Dawson's creek's Joey) using realistic ways to solve crimes and catch bad guys but ever since they introduced these powers and whatnot, what happened to having "realistic" female leads? Now Olivia is superwoman? I like balance on my shows. I like to see average people solving extraordinary cases. Fringe isn't smallville, charmed or Buffy (where these characters already had these powers) so why the writers insisted on giving Olivia's powers?

It must be a TV trope to make average female leads (because you know, all of us women are) into superwomen when the show is out.
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Re: Are they starting to make Olivia too perfect and superwo

Postby myrtus on Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:40 pm

AroundMyFinger12 wrote:I like my role models to be realistic, actually. Olivia was definitely a great role model in season 1 where she was your average FBI agent (reminds me of Dawson's creek's Joey) using realistic ways to solve crimes and catch bad guys but ever since they introduced these powers and whatnot, what happened to having "realistic" female leads? Now Olivia is superwoman? I like balance on my shows. I like to see average people solving extraordinary cases. Fringe isn't smallville, charmed or Buffy (where these characters already had these powers) so why the writers insisted on giving Olivia's powers?

It must be a TV trope to make average female leads (because you know, all of us women are) into superwomen when the show is out.

You don't represent a majority. I don't, either, because I would never look for a role model on a TV show.
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Re: Are they starting to make Olivia too perfect and superwo

Postby AroundMyFinger12 on Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:57 pm

myrtus wrote:
AroundMyFinger12 wrote:I like my role models to be realistic, actually. Olivia was definitely a great role model in season 1 where she was your average FBI agent (reminds me of Dawson's creek's Joey) using realistic ways to solve crimes and catch bad guys but ever since they introduced these powers and whatnot, what happened to having "realistic" female leads? Now Olivia is superwoman? I like balance on my shows. I like to see average people solving extraordinary cases. Fringe isn't smallville, charmed or Buffy (where these characters already had these powers) so why the writers insisted on giving Olivia's powers?

It must be a TV trope to make average female leads (because you know, all of us women are) into superwomen when the show is out.

You don't represent a majority. I don't, either, because I would never look for a role model on a TV show.


I agree.
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Re: Are they starting to make Olivia too perfect and superwo

Postby DarthLocke on Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:28 pm

I disagree with you, aroundmyfinger12. Neither Olivia is perfect. First of all, perfection is not an absolute, it's an "IDEAL" of what one person looks for, or expects in life of people, places, things. In addition I would say every single character on the show is flawed. JJ. Abrams always goes down this root of exploring individuality and social constructs to expose various unique traits of all of his characters. IMO he and his crew show beautiful flaws and they put these flaws in situations that either suddenly become strengths, or that allow other characters to show their colors as well.

Blue Olivia has issues with trust and allowing for deep social connections, She is reclusive. Red Olivia has great social skills, but she lacks in 'real' connections with others as well, because she uses her social repore and status seeking self importance as a way to not deal with the world around her, where as blue Olivia does with out political piety. She has a heart of gold. --But it makes everything much harder for her, at least until now.

I don't know why this episode made you feel any different than before. Olivia could do more when she was young then she can now. --But like Jones said, she is just coming into her ability. I think it's been clear from the start that Olivia's purpose on the show is to be soldier to fight to save the universes, and that it is her relationship with the Bishops is what emotionally pushes for her to be able to do this --->since, 1. Cortexifan works on "feelings" and 2. "6B" made point to suggest that 'emotions' can have physical effects on the universes!

It's Olivia's relationships with others that is driving the story. Just like it was Jack's and Sydney's relationships with others that drove the stories for LOST and Alias. Everyone is going to have their favorite characters and we most likely are not all going to agree on who those people are, but for instance I love blue Olivia because I am a lot like her in terms of her behavior, sense of justice, and social reclusiveness. But that doesn't mean I don't love Peternate, or Walter, or either Charlie Frances, Red Frank Stanton, or any other character for all sorts of reasons. But I also know better than to pre-judge something too soon. To let the writers tell the story the way the feel they need to.

It's not that the show is not about other people, it MOST certainly is, because we all are effected by the people in our lives and THIS is the empirical and anthropological point to nearly all Abram's works---Our connections with others are important, they are what make us so human.

The show ("The Pilot") started with Olivia needing the Bishops, not the other way around.

She may be a Mary Sue-but she is a Mary Sue-in a very not Mary sue world. But she's not a direct hero. She would have to be more like Bristow for that...Olivia is more of a Batman, then a Superman.

In addition Peter only allowed himself to love the alternate, because as ASTRID suggested, he loved blue Olivia FIRST.
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Yet for all their evolution, they form no bonds.
Love does not exist for them. They are incapable of dreaming,
Of contemplating beauty, Of knowing something greater than themselves.
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Re: Are they starting to make Olivia too perfect and superwo

Postby Xindilini on Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:54 pm

DarthLocke wrote:... Everyone is going to have their favorite characters and we most likely are not all going to agree on who those people are...


So true. I started out with Walter in the centre of the universe. Then in the second season, it was Olivia. Now I can't help but follow the other Olivia. It's really a great thing that still has kept me interested for different reasons.
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Re: Are they starting to make Olivia too perfect and superwo

Postby shirtlessfrank on Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:01 pm

It's a science fiction show.

Super powers are par for the course.
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