The Reason Why No One Remembers:

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The Reason Why No One Remembers:

Postby DarthLocke on Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:55 pm

We know that all cortexifaners, with the exception of Nick Lane (see "Bad Dreams" Transcript) and possibly Simon Philips, were programmed not to remember until upon activation (Season 1: the goal of ZFT was to activate: Dr. Isaac Winters, Mitchel Loeb, Sanford Harris, David Robert Jones-->spinal taps and possible other tests (light box-telekeneses)).



1x17 "Bad Dreams"


NICK LANE: Olive. You heard me. You heard me - you came. You were always the strong one. Whenever I got scared, you could make me feel better. Do you remember, Olive?
OLIVIA: I’m sorry, no, I don't.
NICK LANE: That’s okay. I think they meant for us to forget. I just couldn't. I did what they told us. I waited Olive. The soldier to come is both natural and unnatural. I waited to be called up. You stay fit; stay focused, and stay ready. I wore the blacks and grays. I blended in. But the call never came. It never came. Then, that man with the glasses, he showed up at the hospital. He spoke all the old words. He said they're coming. He needed warriors. He said... "what was written will come to pass." He said he knew how to wake me up. I shouldn't have listened to him. Sometimes what we wake up, it can't be put back to sleep.


And then later we learn that Olivia is given a spinal tap and other cortixifaners are being activated like the pair of pyro-kennetic twin sisters, Susan Pratt and Nancy Lewis in "The Road Not Taken". Both "Subject 13" and "the Road Not Taken" suggest that Olivia doesn't nessecarally have to physically travel to the 'other side', but she can just astral project as well.

1x11 "Bound"

OLIVIA: They gave me a spinal tap. They put electrodes or sensors on my head. Why would they do that? I mean, what would they want with me? What were they doing? Who could they be?
"The Road Not Taken"



SUSAN PRATT: Mister Winters, this is Susan. Susan Pratt. You told me to call you if anything odd started happening. Well, it did, after I took the tests. Please call me back.
CHARLIE: I'm gonna call ERT, have them dust for prints.
SUSAN PRATT: Mister Winters, it's Susan again. You told me - you told me not to talk to anybody, but I'm scared. What's happening to me?
Quote:
SANFORD HARRIS: It worked. She's hot. We have an active. But she's a loss. She's highly unstable.
NANCY LEWIS: Why is this happening to me? I don't understand.
OLIVIA: They did something to you -- maybe to both of us a long time ago when we were just kids. And right now you're feeling the effects from that. But you can control this, okay? You can control this and I'm gonna help you. I just need you to focus the heat away from us.


It was suggested also by Emmanual Grayson that Bell was activating them, this is lie however, because we know Jones was mostly behind the corrupted work of ZFT to get to William Bell

EMMANUEL GRAYSON: Are you familiar with William Bell?
OLIVIA: Of course.
EMMANUEL GRAYSON: William Bell killed these people.
OLIVIA: What do you mean?
EMMANUEL GRAYSON: William Bell's company Massive Dynamic is a cover for all manner of unethical behavior. Multi-national, outside the purview of government control. He founded it to continue his experiments with impunity. Among them, secret drug trials. This was one of his test subjects.
OLIVIA: Then why would William Bell have him killed?
EMMANUEL GRAYSON: Well, he didn't. At least not intentionally. You see, Bell is trying to activate his subjects to see which ones were successful. Some can handle the process. Others can't.
OLIVIA: What process?
EMMANUEL GRAYSON: To create super soldiers.
OLIVIA: Super soldiers?


The lack of memory is also why she didn't recognize herself in her own subconscience/astra-dream state when Walter is trying to re -enhance her ability in "Jacksonville"

We now know that Olivia was apart of these trials for at least 2 or 3 years now.

We also know from "In which we Meet Mr. Jones" and "Dream Logic" Peter was also subjected to hypnosis to not remember his dreams and that he was shocked with car battery.


Here are "Dream Logic" and "In Which We Meet Mr. Jones" Transcripts:


2x05 "Dream Logic"

PETER: Actually, it was one of the rare occasions in my childhood that walter was helpful. He taught me to condition myself. Every night before I went to sleep I had to say a mantra in my head. "Please don't dream tonight. Please don't dream tonight. Please don't dream tonight."
OLIVIA: Did that work?
PETER: Well, you can't stop yourself from dreaming, but it did make it so that I didn't remember. From the age of eight to almost nineteen... don't remember a single dream. No more nightmares.


1 x07 "In Which We Meet Mr. Jones"

WALTER: Yes. Well, the – the trouble was, he had a shockingly low electro-sensitivity. When I turned on the machine, it instantly fried is brain like an egg. Everyone has the unique tolerance to electrical stimulation. Mine for instance, is remarkably high. Yours Peter -- unusually low. As for our friend here, we don’t know. Too little current and won’t work. Too much, and we will overcook his brain - so I will have..
PETER: You ~ used to do this to me. You attached wires to car batteries and then you would shock me.
WALTER: Yes, I was accumulating data.
PETER: No, you are experimenting on me.
WALTER: Son, we’re ready. First we must test if this will register any brain activity. And this will indicate if he’s transmitting any thoughts to you. Since he’s dead, Peter, you’ll obviously have to be his ears and mouth. Eventually, we’ll connect this to your head. (to Farnsworth) Okay dear, we’re ready. Turn it on. Try two hundred micro-volts!
Walter had parts of his brain removed ("Grey Matters") so this explains the lack of memory on all of their parts which in effect makes this all the more interesting and difficult for them.


ALIAS REFERENCE: Olivia Dunham is seen with dark blocks, just like Sydney Bristow:

Sydney Bristow:

Sydney Bristow was born April 17, 1975. For the first six years of her life she lived with both of her parents, Jack and Laura Bristow (real name Irina Derevko). Although her father's work with the CIA kept him away from home much of the time. Sydney and her family were living in rural Maryland until, at the age of two, Jack had been transferred to Los Angeles. In 1981 her mother, who was also an undercover agent for the KGB, faked her death to prevent being apprehended by the FBI. Afterwards Jack was taken into custody for some time, because it was believed that he also was part of a larger conspiracy. Jack named Arvin Sloane as Sydney's temporary guardian. Sydney went to live with Sloane and his wife Emily, for a time (Note that this is a retcon as it was previously established that Sydney did not meet Arvin or Emily until Sydney had already started working for SD-6).
When Jack was finally cleared, he began drinking heavily and became more of an absentee father, leaving Sydney to be raised by nannies. In her later childhood, Sydney began exhibiting unusually high intelligence and problem solving abilities.



PROJECT CHRISTMAS:

Project Christmas is a fictional black ops project from the television show Alias. Developed by the Central Intelligence Agency and headed by Jack Bristow in the 1970s, the project was designed to identify and train children as sleeper agents to become future spies. The KGB assigned Irina Derevko to marry Jack in order to steal the plans of Project Christmas.

It was stated in the Alias season 2 episode The Indicator that "the best spies have certain traits: proficiency with numbers, three dimensional thinking, creative problem solving. These abilities are all in evidence as early as five years old." Project Christmas was based upon this; an operation to train children to be American spies.

Sydney Bristow stumbles across the project in season 2 while on a mission to Budapest to retrieve information on 16 "next-generation weapons" being developed by a loose alliance of criminal syndicates known as "The Triad."
The "weapons" turn out to be sixteen six year-old children seen assembling handguns while blindfolded. Upon returning to Los Angeles, Sydney learns from an "Agent Kerr" that the children were identified through a series of questions embedded in standardized tests administered to every six year-old child in the European Union. 28 children were identified that year and the 16 who Sydney saw were recruited through their parents under the false pretense of participating in a month-long achievement seminar.

After the month ended, the children's memories were altered so that they had no recollection of the training. Kerr advises Sydney that there were rumors that the KGB had been developing a similar program in the early 1980s but that they had never been confirmed. Shortly thereafter that man who was training the 16 children is identified as Valerie Kholokov, former head of the KGB's Psych Ops division. The CIA placed all the children under surveillance to intercede should the Triad ever contact them in the future.

In season 2, while on a mission to Buenos Aires to recover Kholokov, Sydney encounters a block puzzle ("The Indicator") and instinctively solves it. She felt like she remembered it rather than solved it. Back in Los Angeles, Sydney has Agent Kerr hypnotically regress her back to the time she first saw the puzzle. She sees herself as a little girl at home, first solving the puzzle and then handling a handgun. Jack is with her. Sydney realized that Jack subjected her to Project Christmas, programming her to be a spy. Jack later states he trained Sydney once he had realized that his wife, Laura Bristow, had in fact been a member of the KGB.



TALES OF THE FRINGE Comic Issue 1, Story 2: "LOST TIME" A Teenage Girl Takes a Drug, ' astral projects to the future'?, and learns she is a sleeper agent:

The second one, "Lost Time" is about a teenaged girl who is a track star named Nikki who snuck out of her parents house to go to a party to be with her [boy] friend, Rick. They are sitting on the couch and Rick tells Nikki that he found this new clean, fresh drug that has no side affects called "F" and it's supposed to give you the wildest trip ever! --She is hesident, but tries it. She starts to see Rick all blurry and then she says she doesn't feel do good.

Suddenly we see an open whole from a buildings ceiling shaft and Nikki has just jumped out onto a checkered floor of a female labled rest room. She is wering a green jumper and carrying a gun. She is a spy. On the floor is a man with 2 bullets in his chest and blood spilling out onto the floor. He says, "I'm older, and I---" Nikki looks in the mirror. it appears she has shot Rick and they both appear roughly 10 years older! She says while still holding the gun, "what have I done?!" She peers out the bathroom door and sees she is inside some fancy corporation building. She crouches out into the hall and hears her small communications devise BUZZ..They call her "Agent---" static...and ask how close she is to "the target"? She responds, "the target?" and they say, "he remains stationary on the top floor. You have exactly 2 mins to eliminate him. do you copy?" and she then says, "What happens if I don't eliminate him?...."Have to----or we all die---"

at that moment to securaty gaurds approach and corner her. She suddenly then is able to fight her way agianst them leaving them unconscince. She goes for the elevator, but she needs a building members retna scan in order to access the elevator so she goes back and drags one of the guys there. She eventually makes it to the top floor and there is a bald man with glasses with his fingertips together with his back facing the elevator door. the conversation is as follows..

Man: I knew it would only be a matter of time until you came...Perhaps it is only fitting that after I created what you've become-- --you're the one they send to kill me.

Nikki: I don't even know who you are...but I am not a killer.


Man: No. That is something I taught you to do. Funny, I always thought of you as a daughter. You were my track star ---always running.

(Securaty gaurds burst in)

Man cont'd: I'm sorry there's no where to run now...Kill her!

The men start shooting...she leaps across the desk and smashes through the window and starts to fall several stories to the street. (which one of the cars is a blue VW bus) she hits the pavement.


Suddenly teenage Nikki wakes up next to teenaged Rick at the party. He tells her "what gnarly trip!" and she freaks out and says she has to go. She runs outside into the pooring rain--Suddenly she is hit by a car. Men get out of the car and tell their boss that they hit a girl. their boss roles down the window...it is the man Nikki was to assasinate from her "experience". They tell him she is alive but badly injured and ask him if they should just leave. Their boss responds "No. Let's get her to the hospital. I could use the Karma"

---the end.


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Re: The Reason Why No One Remembers:

Postby HannaK on Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:46 pm

Interesting read :thumbsup:
I never thought it was weird that nobody remembered what took place in Subject 13
It's been adressed multiple times during the course of the show that Walter has a hard time remembering, well, anything. Not to mention that parts of his brain were removed.
Walter and Elizabeth have been getting Peter to supress his memory ever since Walter brought him over here.
And Olivia already pointed out in Jacksonville that she didn't remember the trials:
I have a freakishly good memory. I remember everything. Not this. There's just nothing I remember.

And as DarthLocke already explained, she was programmed to suspress the memories of the trials
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Re: The Reason Why No One Remembers:

Postby AdamDHarris on Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:15 pm

Nice Trawling through the archives to remind me!

I knew there probably was a reason why they couldn't remember, and I assumed it was something like this, but I couldn't remember if it had been directly addressed before or not.

You seriously should review the episodes, I like to think I have a decent understanding and memory of the show, but you always have such in depth posts, haha.

Thanks!
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Re: The Reason Why No One Remembers:

Postby DarthLocke on Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:43 pm

AdamDHarris wrote:Nice Trawling through the archives to remind me!

I knew there probably was a reason why they couldn't remember, and I assumed it was something like this, but I couldn't remember if it had been directly addressed before or not.

You seriously should review the episodes, I like to think I have a decent understanding and memory of the show, but you always have such in depth posts, haha.

Thanks!



Thanks. :) To be honest the first time I watched season 1, I realized I really didn't have an ok understanding until I rewatched it all. For me "Bad Dreams" is still one of my fav eps and so I have always remembered what Nick Lane said.

It's strange that the show runners didn't just come out and point some of this out themselves. Perhaps they are hoping to get a little more into Olivia's, Peter's and Walter's back stories pending a season 4 and so maybe like Bell and Walter, they hope we forget too! :P

It's one thing hearing Nick Lane say something about it and having the writers throw out a bunch of sleeper agent references, and it's another things to actually see them go through a process to have in accurate memories....

On another level it opens up a lot of doors for things to still be revealed.

Be glad I don't write reviews! The spelling would be a disaster, the review would never end, and It wouldn't be finished until the next episode. :P No, really you and Alex do a really nice job at going over the most important things. :D :thumbsup:
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Re: The Reason Why No One Remembers:

Postby LockeUp on Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:48 pm

Is this episode really THAT confusing? Too many people did not like it because they can not figure out why they can't remember. It's like people tuned out the past 2 seasons and jump to nonsensical conclusions. I'm so frustrated reading some of the comments about the episode.
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Re: The Reason Why No One Remembers:

Postby DarthLocke on Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:08 am

LockeUp wrote:Is this episode really THAT confusing? Too many people did not like it because they can not figure out why they can't remember. It's like people tuned out the past 2 seasons and jump to nonsensical conclusions. I'm so frustrated reading some of the comments about the episode.


I didn't think it was either, but I don't think it helped when the the fans asked, 'why don't they remember?' and the show runners reply, 'Trauma', when it seems like season 1 outlined and suggested cortixifaners are sleeper agents, helped the situation any.

So that's why off the top of my head I went back through and got the transcripts and references together, because like you, I felt it was already addressed.

But I do think that suggesting something, or just having it mentioned may not be enough, so I am hopeful that the show runners are being coy because they do want to show us at some point.
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Re: The Reason Why No One Remembers:

Postby HannaK on Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:16 pm

Imo the writers didn't address why nobody remembered on purpose. They can't expect the casual viewer to remember everything about the sleeper agents and what has been explained in S2. I really think they are gonna address it later in the season/
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