Long story

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Long story

Postby real1 on Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:59 pm

OK ,

This is the 1st topic I had opened here :D , i have a friend over twitter , and we both were talking about Fringe , so many theories in fact ! .... so I did invite her/him to this site , so am I waiting him/her to appear :)

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Re: Long story

Postby Two Sides on Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:12 am

As long as their name isn't 'AroundMyToe12' or something along those lines, then it's cool :D
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Re: Long story

Postby real1 on Sat Jun 04, 2011 2:04 am

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Really i laughed so hard , I hope it's not her !! but actually it's not her cuz i will figure her out in a second , :lol:

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Re: Long story

Postby vaferin5 on Sat Jun 04, 2011 7:27 am

Hi! I'm a her, a tvjunkie and a writer. Fringe is one of my favorite shows, so...

So real1, here I am! Hehehe, what I can see is we have a 7 hours of difference.

So what is the theory to discuss now? We have tons of them!
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Re: Long story

Postby DarthLocke on Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:11 pm

vaferin5 wrote:Hi! I'm a her, a tvjunkie and a writer. Fringe is one of my favorite shows, so...

So real1, here I am! Hehehe, what I can see is we have a 7 hours of difference.

So what is the theory to discuss now? We have tons of them!


Welcome to SpoilerTV: FRINGE Discussion, vaferin5! The most current thoughts are on the "Season 4 -call it!" thread, but there are a lot of threads in which hold ever-working theories onto themselves! Feel free to look around and add your thoughts to any part of the discussion or have a specific theory? -Start a new topic! :D
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Re: Long story

Postby vaferin5 on Sat Jun 04, 2011 6:22 pm

Okay.

We have been discussing about JJAbrahms and Pinkers influences from Greek, Celtic and Biblic mithology in their shows, basically in Alias and Lost and how all this background has been transfused to Fringe. This has taken our sick imagination into posible timelines and other considerations.

I wll go around the space.

Thanks for letting me in.
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Re: Long story

Postby DarthLocke on Sun Jun 05, 2011 2:28 pm

vaferin5 wrote:Okay.

We have been discussing about JJAbrahms and Pinkers influences from Greek, Celtic and Biblic mithology in their shows, basically in Alias and Lost and how all this background has been transfused to Fringe. This has taken our sick imagination into posible timelines and other considerations.

I wll go around the space.

Thanks for letting me in.



Yes! I find all of Bad Robot's works are presented in an anthropological-post modern-type of way so that it embellishes multiple cultures and philosophies and theologies, but that the empirical aspect is always more the main infusion, as all works, sci-fi aside, end up being about the characters, their relationships, their ethics, and then ultimately the show becomes about 'the experience' and exposes "Identity". -"Who am I in relation to my life?"
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Re: Long story

Postby real1 on Sun Jun 05, 2011 3:46 pm

You made it vaferin5 :thumbup:

Oh yeah 7 hours at least ! :P but we can cheat the rule of time any way LOOOL :rofl:

Let's start : who's Nina ? .. Darth has a lovely topic about Nina , also the fact of Olivia born 1978 and AltOlivia in 1981 , If Bell did leave Olivia or he is still in her or he is her for the last 3 episodes ! , if Peter is trapped in the BBm from future or is he living in the red side for now , opening the doorway between 2 sides is not a solution and will permit for X-man to cross to the blue side trying to kill Olivia .

Imagine if Bell was involving with Altnina ? and that's why Nina was opening up to Olivia , Imagine if AltNina the one which will send x-man to kill Olivia on the other hand Nina will try to protect Olivia by all ways because she is the real mother for Olivia ! ... I would love that !

So many things , I don't know lost nor Alias , Fringe is the first show i saw for JJAbrahms and Pinkers and Joel , am follow the story line and really Fringe is a strong show .. yes there is some defects but they can resolve it .

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Re: Long story

Postby vaferin5 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:00 am

I thought I posted this but now, I can't find it!

Regardless of which JJ Abrahms series you might have in mind, there certain characteristics:

Theme: Who am I?
A three person family either by blood or by choice
There's always a heroine a mid - except for Lost where Jack turns to be the main protagonist
The rebel son/daughter
An evil / not that evil parent who put the world on the verge of destruction
Betrayal
Friendship can be stronger and more ID enforcer than parenthood yet... debatible
Ancient mythology with tons of references to Leonardo Da Vince - Peter's position in the BBM machine; the drawings of Sidney in Alias; Lost... too many.
The golden boy always falling for the bad girl who, at the end does have feelings for him and at the same time for someone else - let's say love can be too messy
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Re: Long story

Postby real1 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 4:40 pm

For me i don't know Lost and to be honest ( please lost's fans don't go after me :lol: ) i did see one episode but i didn't feel myself hooked to it , same thing did happen to alias , but with fringe , the things is different , so many themes so many impossibilities but it always goes for the three main characters , maybe .. i for one .. would like from them to concentrate on Olivia's character more because we don't know enough about her origin and connections with the other character well enough .

I am from 24 land , Jack Bauer was the strongest character he was 24 , I see Olivia Dunham is a female Jack Bauer in Fringe , and maybe that's why i can't give Altolivia any chance , one body for one soul = one Olivia Dunham and yet we don't know her history or how she becomes on what she is ... , same did happen to Jack in 24 .. and when the writers expose his past and his family they turned his father as a terrorist with his brother ! .

Fringe's story line can go in so many ways , and i hope the writers will keep the characters as how the fans are seeing them , well there will be some change for sure .. but .... we hope for the best always .

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Re: Long story

Postby vaferin5 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:42 pm

Well, that is part of my point. Lost is a tough series to follow unless you saw since its beginning because of the mythology. My friends tell me it is the same now with Fringe. A friend of mine saw the entire 1st Season. He lost the beginning of S2 and now he just dropped it. It was too much for him, so...

Go to www.cuevana.tv and see Alias,that's the strength Olivia might be missing. The feeling I have is Joshua Jackson complained about his character. He has a name in the States and, from that perspective, they were waisting him badly. The problem is we had a S3 swirling around a strong Olivia and suddenly, having AltOlivia Here, P became the focus of everything and both Olivias just deluted.

I am trusting that with Peter = non existence, Olivia returns to being our main character.The Golden Boy is important but I see him more as a mean to an end where the one who must make it happened is Olivia with the help of Walter, Bell, Nina, Broyles ¡all of them! And AltOlivia like kind of the other side of her Nemesis if Olivia were to have a lighter life.

AltOlivia is the "positive" Olivia's possibility who never had either the burden nor imagine herself as a Guardian or Savior.
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Re: Long story

Postby real1 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:55 pm

You have to believe me I don't know Joshua Jackson nor Anna Torv before Fringe , the only one which I know is John Noble from "The Lord of the Rings " and i started to watch Fringe with S3 , I did a marathon watching S1 and s2 , the first episode I saw was "ability" from S1 which lead me to see all at once from the start .

What i did take from it is how Olivia's character was strong and sensible at once , how she did build her team with Walter and forced Peter to work for FBI and taking care of his father , and how she was more understanding Walter more than Peter . and then suddenly we are facing the truth by there is another parallel universe !

and then ... they made Walter stole Peter from the other side ... and Olivia was a cortixeKid with many abilities and yet we don't know how her parent were accepting the trials ! .. and then suddenly we have BBM and Peter is the responsible of the world ending !

Actually , from the start .. in my opinion it was clear that Fringe is about Olivia and through her .. but by the mid of S2 to now .. the story is turning about Peter and his role to BBM , which in my opinion is not that interesting to follow it , don't get me wrong , but as a real fans .. Jack Bauer will remain the best strong male character that the TV history did create , So with Fringe I was looking to find the best female character to add in the history of TV , So why Josh was complaining i don't know , if you did watch 24 there were so many characters and supports characters as Tony beside Jack , but I really didn't see any actors or actress were complaining about any thing or about the show ... they were all doing their job .

Fringe ... has so many directions I think , which let the fans confused , and reading about the cast is complaining that's for sure will influence the fans too , So .. it's better to focus on the story line .. what did make Fringe ..Fringe ?

The "Pilot" s1ep1 was clear it's about Olivia Dunham and how she is leading her team and deal with them to save life and innocents people ( sounds like Jack Bauer ) , Walter Bishop is a mad doctor who had helped FBI and military DOD and national security ..... and then we have Peter Bishop .. who's a lost man .. conning people .. had a history with Mafia .... and he is from the other side .

I think they didn't deal perfectly with Peter's character but still all what he had done is in his character expect that he is an agent ! .. i can't see Peter as agent s3ep22 " the day we died" ... how the FBI can trust him while he proved that he can hold secret and work alone ? and why on earth he was wearing a green Jacket with his name on it ? .. you can feel that it was forced thing for this character .

Letting him now not existed = amazing ! why ? because they can fix his character now , he can be acting like that because he wasn't living his right life , he must live at the red side not the blue side .. so maybe we will get to see him living in the red side to see what kind of man he is now .

For AltOlivia's character , I really really don't know why this character is alive to now ? .. she is there to tear the things up , no any way I can see her as Olivia ,no way for that , and i hope the writers are seeing the same thing , Fringe has one strong character = Olivia , AltOlivia could be a clone for Olivia as how we talked before , Olivia in 1978 , AltOlivia in 1981 , which will suggest that AltOlivia someone did make her .. but for what purpose ? is she a line to defend Olivia at some point ?

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Re: Long story

Postby DarthLocke on Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:36 pm

real1 wrote:For me i don't know Lost and to be honest ( please lost's fans don't go after me :lol: ) i did see one episode but i didn't feel myself hooked to it , same thing did happen to alias , but with fringe , the things is different , so many themes so many impossibilities but it always goes for the three main characters , maybe .. i for one .. would like from them to concentrate on Olivia's character more because we don't know enough about her origin and connections with the other character well enough .

I am from 24 land , Jack Bauer was the strongest character he was 24 , I see Olivia Dunham is a female Jack Bauer in Fringe , and maybe that's why i can't give Altolivia any chance , one body for one soul = one Olivia Dunham and yet we don't know her history or how she becomes on what she is ... , same did happen to Jack in 24 .. and when the writers expose his past and his family they turned his father as a terrorist with his brother ! .

Fringe's story line can go in so many ways , and i hope the writers will keep the characters as how the fans are seeing them , well there will be some change for sure .. but .... we hope for the best always .

:cool:


IMO Fringe is like Alias and LOST combined, but as if you would be watching it from the perspective of the DI or the Others, as we can use what we gain from FRINGE to answer questions about memory transference, alternate realities, course correction/simulation hypothesis, and by extension of those things, futurology. Seriously pretend Rambaldi is one of the Island's inhabitants, and then pretend the Island is a space-time machine build by 'the first people' and you start to see how relative, yet how manifesting Bad Robot's stories are to each other!

I actually think FRINGE is more experimental because we really can expand on seeing how people can effect each other and cause change, so I do hope to see more empirical pursuits, but also show us, like in 6B, some things are meant to be constant such as the love between people...
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Love does not exist for them. They are incapable of dreaming,
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Re: Long story

Postby vaferin5 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:44 pm

In a way, Rambaldi is/was the Walter in th past.

Such as Walter sent the BBM machine and the Peter and Olivia drawings to the past, Rambaldi sent into the future Sidney drawings and a device as well. Lost... hehehe, the entire island is what goes back and forward.

real1 we need you to see Alias at least! :) You will certainly enjoy it.

I wrote an entire post and why it didn't go through, clueless! I'm feeling like Lost!

-- Merged Double Post --

Okay rewriting my original post.

Things we need to find out answers for if Peter doesn't exist:

- Is the war between Walter and Walternate still personal or just political/social?
- Olivia crossed over to bring Peter back. Why did she do it now? Otherwise, if Olivia never did the crossing, Altivia would never become important in this story.
- Who triggers the BBM machine now? As long as I understand, if Peter DOESN'T EXIST he does not in both worlds. That migt NOT MEAN he did not exist in the past. Both Walters did have Peter as a son and both of them lost them. Maybe, just like Rachel doesn't exist Here, after losing Peter, Walternate or Walter had a second child who is the one that an trigger the BBM in both worlds. Or maybe, if this brother exists and (could he look like Peter?), Harry's baby is his.
- Is there a romantic interest for Olivia in this timeline? Is Frank in Altivia's life?
- Why do we have this 3 years of age difference between Altivia and Olivia? Could it be that Over There's timeline had Rachel be older than Olivia for a longer year distance?
- Did Altivia ever have a stepfather? If so, what happened to him? What is the story for obviously, her mom is a healthy woman with a life. Olivia's mom died- we do not know how or when - and lived a bitter life.
- did Bell still died over There?
- Nina's role over there?
- Are both Walters still married?
just for now :)
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Re: Long story

Postby myrtus on Wed Jun 08, 2011 8:22 am

vaferin5 wrote:Go to http://www.cuevana.tv and see Alias,that's the strength Olivia might be missing. The feeling I have is Joshua Jackson complained about his character. He has a name in the States and, from that perspective, they were waisting him badly. The problem is we had a S3 swirling around a strong Olivia and suddenly, having AltOlivia Here, P became the focus of everything and both Olivias just deluted.

I am trusting that with Peter = non existence, Olivia returns to being our main character.The Golden Boy is important but I see him more as a mean to an end where the one who must make it happened is Olivia with the help of Walter, Bell, Nina, Broyles ¡all of them! And AltOlivia like kind of the other side of her Nemesis if Olivia were to have a lighter life.

AltOlivia is the "positive" Olivia's possibility who never had either the burden nor imagine herself as a Guardian or Savior.

Joshua Jackson never complained about his role in the show, he simply didn't have a positive opinion on Peter. What I mean is that he liked that Walter and Olivia had more importance in the story and that he didn't particularly like Peter's personality. I have no idea, where this idea that Joshua Jackson is not happy with his role comes from, but it's not true. If it were so, he wouldn't geek out over the show as much as he does. He has his own theories and preferences and I think he has the right to express them.

As for what this show is about, everyone has their preferences, too. Olivia's fans will say everything is about Olivia, Walter's fans will say everything is about him. Personally, I've always found Olivia's plots boring and I find myself fast-forwarding through them to the parts I love the most. That's why S3 has been the worst for me, so much focus on her and her double has soured my love for the show. That doesn't mean I want Olivia to become a background character, like apparently you want Peter to be (although he has been a background character this season, more than usually, with minimal screentime and diminished importance). What we think or hope the show is about has no importance. From day one the producers have said it's the story of these 3 main characters and their relationship. So far, they have delivered on Olivia and Walter. However, they have relegated Peter to nothingness. Literally. Even when he existed, his only storyline, his only one for 3 seasons, was given to Olivia, too, for whatever reason. So let me recap: The show is about these three characters, but Olivia is the brave, generous, selfless, forgiving one and the one with superpowers. Walter is the reason everything happens. Peter? He's the ball they want to keep or kick, when it's convenient for them or for the writers. The machine had marginal focus on the show, it was like, "Look! There is the Machine! It's connected to Peter! Now let's focus on Olivia's feelings." Oh, and now a baby's blood can power the machine, too. Oh, and Olivia is connected to it, too.

And you still think Peter needs to be more of a background character? Calling him The Golden Boy means very little, when there is virtually nothing to support that. What did he do this season? He kissed Olivia and he built a bridge. Good for The Golden Boy! Even though Olivia (and her alternate version) have taken up all the storylines and the focus this season, I don't want her to move to the background, I just want her to let the other stories breathe.

My hope for S4 is that they end this P/O nonsense, it does the Peter character more harm than good. Let her hook up with Peter's replacement and if Peter comes back, let him have a realistic love interest, bring in another female character if he needs a love story.

vaferin5 wrote:Things we need to find out answers for if Peter doesn't exist:

- Olivia crossed over to bring Peter back. Why did she do it now? Otherwise, if Olivia never did the crossing, Altivia would never become important in this story.
- Who triggers the BBM machine now? As long as I understand, if Peter DOESN'T EXIST he does not in both worlds. That migt NOT MEAN he did not exist in the past. Both Walters did have Peter as a son and both of them lost them. Maybe, just like Rachel doesn't exist Here, after losing Peter, Walternate or Walter had a second child who is the one that an trigger the BBM in both worlds. Or maybe, if this brother exists and (could he look like Peter?), Harry's baby is his.
- Is there a romantic interest for Olivia in this timeline? Is Frank in Altivia's life?

They could give an easy answer to all of those questions. Peter's replacement, probably Lincoln. They don't need to change anything. Just make Peter's substitute power the machine and be Walter's caretaker.
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