Long story

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Re: Long story

Postby myrtus on Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:24 am

DarthLocke wrote:Real1, I forgot and just remembered that blue Olivia had an Uncle named Henry, who's kayak she sees in her dremscape in "The Pilot" episode---(I attribute the notion of Uncle Henry and the Kayak as continious metaphors to symmetry and 'life is but a dream' poem--Peter: "If you can dream a better world, then you can make a better world)

Olivia never said her uncle's name. Walter, however, did have an uncle called Henry, who died in some battle. I think he was mentioned in Fracture. I'm glad that it gave the baby (hopefully he doesn't exist anymore) some connection to Peter, flimsy, but definitely a connection.

vaferin5 wrote:Would it be fair to say, one live is a valuable as the rest of them, and as long as one life gets lost, we all get doomed?

I don't think that's what the show is trying to say. In fact, I think the writers have been trying to drive home the fact, that saving Peter was wrong. The evidence is that Walter destroyed 2 universes, when he saved him and they were starting to heal, the moment he disappeared.
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Re: Long story

Postby DarthLocke on Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:17 pm

myrtus wrote:
DarthLocke wrote:Real1, I forgot and just remembered that blue Olivia had an Uncle named Henry, who's kayak she sees in her dremscape in "The Pilot" episode---(I attribute the notion of Uncle Henry and the Kayak as continious metaphors to symmetry and 'life is but a dream' poem--Peter: "If you can dream a better world, then you can make a better world)

Olivia never said her uncle's name. Walter, however, did have an uncle called Henry, who died in some battle. I think he was mentioned in Fracture. I'm glad that it gave the baby (hopefully he doesn't exist anymore) some connection to Peter, flimsy, but definitely a connection.

vaferin5 wrote:Would it be fair to say, one live is a valuable as the rest of them, and as long as one life gets lost, we all get doomed?

I don't think that's what the show is trying to say. In fact, I think the writers have been trying to drive home the fact, that saving Peter was wrong. The evidence is that Walter destroyed 2 universes, when he saved him and they were starting to heal, the moment he disappeared.



Thanks, you're right! :thumbup: (my bad: getting all the fishing/boat stuff mixed up :blush: ) It was a Bishop and 'Henry' is equally a Peter Bishop association....but I also remembered that the FBI agent, a friend and collegue of Olivia's, who died at the expense of John Mosley, was Henry Jacobson...he had said to have been on the case when the beacon appeared before in 1985....1985 of course was the year Peter wads taken and the year Olivia and Peter met...

but to your response to vaferin5, I have to disagree because it remains to be seen. Peter could come back...we still don't know specifically what kind of an effect the reset will have....nor does it mean there won't be, or have already been other resets, nor does it mean Peter won't eventually come back and become apart of their lives again in some way. --There is still this issue that the blue doppleganger didn't reach adulthood like the rest of the characters...which to me either means another adult Peter with another machine is time traveling or making a bridge somewhere/when else already or that there can only be one adult Peter Bishop because he was something that was made by man (not in the traditional sense).

Peter's non existence doesn't necessarily mean he didn't or did need saving, but that he has to change his relationship with the timeline to make a difference later in attempts to avoid a sanario like he saw in a possible/probable 2026....If anything they had to let go of Peter so that he can save them...
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Re: Long story

Postby vaferin5 on Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:25 pm

Mmm... DarkLocke,

After ready your theory, hehhe, the more I believe the red one is the original one. Sometimes, the past becomes kind of a law. Only when disruption, evolution, revolution breaks through is when a world/culture starts/is obliged to change. The blue is less developed in science, but in emotions, as they are not tied to a fix pass, in their curiosity and need of evolving/creating their own ID is that they create the wholes and put in motion inactivity.

Myrth,

I confess, I still have problems except, maybe for Olivia and lately - still to be proved - that our characters are really into saving humanity than saving themselves - beloved one, ideology, world, etc.

Interesing the idea that Peter was not supposed to live, but if my mind doesn't trick me, in 1985 because September interrumpted Walternate, Red Peter was doomed to die. Because that was a mistake, September tried to ammend (is that how you write this?) his mistake/intrusion by saving Walter from drowing with Peter in the Blue World. If the child were intendly not to live, why would he "be important", why would September care to save him from death? Or, Peter become important because he was kidnapped and his "living" changed everything?

What is also interesting is the idea of th doppleganger. Who are the dopplegangers, us or the Red ones or how many dopplehangers exist right now? If whomever is a doppleganger, I bet the 1st People created them/us
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Re: Long story

Postby myrtus on Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:44 pm

DarthLocke wrote:Thanks, you're right! :thumbup: (my bad: getting all the fishing/boat stuff mixed up :blush: ) It was a Bishop and 'Henry' is equally a Peter Bishop association....but I also remembered that the FBI agent, a friend and collegue of Olivia's, who died at the expense of John Mosley, was Henry Jacobson...he had said to have been on the case when the beacon appeared before in 1985....1985 of course was the year Peter wads taken and the year Olivia and Peter met...

Good call about Jacobson! :cool: So the beacon appeared for the first time in 1985? I didn't know that. I wonder what that means :hmm:

but to your response to vaferin5, I have to disagree because it remains to be seen. Peter could come back...we still don't know specifically what kind of an effect the reset will have....nor does it mean there won't be, or have already been other resets, nor does it mean Peter won't eventually come back and become apart of their lives again in some way. --There is still this issue that the blue doppleganger didn't reach adulthood like the rest of the characters...which to me either means another adult Peter with another machine is time traveling or making a bridge somewhere/when else already or that there can only be one adult Peter Bishop because he was something that was made by man (not in the traditional sense).

There has been only one minor reset. The one in White Tulip, but that didn't negate the previous seasons and it didn't negate a main character.

Peter's non existence doesn't necessarily mean he didn't or did need saving, but that he has to change his relationship with the timeline to make a difference later in attempts to avoid a sanario like he saw in a possible/probable 2026....If anything they had to let go of Peter so that he can save them...

I don't know... saving Peter meant the deaths of a lot of people. Letting go of Peter was Walter's way to make amends. That's what the writers showed us. I think the message is clear.

vaferin5 wrote:Mmm... DarkLocke,

After ready your theory, hehhe, the more I believe the red one is the original one. Sometimes, the past becomes kind of a law. Only when disruption, evolution, revolution breaks through is when a world/culture starts/is obliged to change. The blue is less developed in science, but in emotions, as they are not tied to a fix pass, in their curiosity and need of evolving/creating their own ID is that they create the wholes and put in motion inactivity.

There is one argument against the red universe being the original one, though. Our Walter sent the machine back to the past in the blue universe. He with Peter and maybe Astrid and Ella were the First People. It makes sense that the red universe originated from the blue one, thus getting its own copy of the machine.

Myrth,

I confess, I still have problems except, maybe for Olivia and lately - still to be proved - that our characters are really into saving humanity than saving themselves - beloved one, ideology, world, etc.

I'm sorry, but as far as I am aware, they have all made selfish and selfless decisions. I don't see why you have a problem with that :unsure: And although you want to set Olivia as an example, I remember how she blackmailed Peter into cooperating to save her boyfriend, she didn't care about justice for the victims of the terrorist attacks. Remember, she offered immunity to a terrorist, so that her lover could live. This is just one example.

Surely Walter is the most selfish and destructive of all, but I don't have much of a problem with that. That makes him entertaining :)

Interesing the idea that Peter was not supposed to live, but if my mind doesn't trick me, in 1985 because September interrumpted Walternate, Red Peter was doomed to die. Because that was a mistake, September tried to ammend (is that how you write this?) his mistake/intrusion by saving Walter from drowing with Peter in the Blue World. If the child were intendly not to live, why would he "be important", why would September care to save him from death? Or, Peter become important because he was kidnapped and his "living" changed everything?

Your mind doesn't trick you, but the writers have contradicted themselves so many times, I don't know what to say. First it was the boy must live, then it was the boy must die or disappear. Maybe the writers are bipolar ;)

What is also interesting is the idea of th doppleganger. Who are the dopplegangers, us or the Red ones or how many dopplehangers exist right now? If whomever is a doppleganger, I bet the 1st People created them/us

As far as I know, the doppelgangers were created by their parents :P Walter is Walternate's doppelganger and Walternate is Walter's doppelganger. Doppelganger doesn't mean the person is artificial, it just means that a person looks exactly like another one. I think the show is going for infinite number of universes, so there is a large number of doppelgangers.
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Re: Long story

Postby DarthLocke on Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:30 pm

vaferin5 wrote:Mmm... DarkLocke,

After ready your theory, hehhe, the more I believe the red one is the original one. Sometimes, the past becomes kind of a law. Only when disruption, evolution, revolution breaks through is when a world/culture starts/is obliged to change. The blue is less developed in science, but in emotions, as they are not tied to a fix pass, in their curiosity and need of evolving/creating their own ID is that they create the wholes and put in motion inactivity.

Myrth,

I confess, I still have problems except, maybe for Olivia and lately - still to be proved - that our characters are really into saving humanity than saving themselves - beloved one, ideology, world, etc.

Interesing the idea that Peter was not supposed to live, but if my mind doesn't trick me, in 1985 because September interrumpted Walternate, Red Peter was doomed to die. Because that was a mistake, September tried to ammend (is that how you write this?) his mistake/intrusion by saving Walter from drowing with Peter in the Blue World. If the child were intendly not to live, why would he "be important", why would September care to save him from death? Or, Peter become important because he was kidnapped and his "living" changed everything?

What is also interesting is the idea of th doppleganger. Who are the dopplegangers, us or the Red ones or how many dopplehangers exist right now? If whomever is a doppleganger, I bet the 1st People created them/us



Yes, 100% agree! :thumbup: Good job!!!---> Septembers correction is the key and therefor Peter's death is not the heart of the matter!

It's not so much about Peter dying then, as much as it must be about the Walters letting go.


I think both realities are no longer the original they both manifest it's traits because of the the connections and the severe entanglement, but I do think that because the red was the original up until some point, the red one has more common (or has kept more of the donimate) traits from the original, then the blue one as blue one was suppose to be "a second chance"....but both realities are fighting for a future (a past future) that either was completely lost, or is still playing out....it just depends on an individuals basis for where they draw the line for their own personal beliefs in life extension verses a life time/reality...

One one big speculation comes with the idea that we didn't get wind that the red unearthed their machine, more like William helped Walternate build the replica and why part of red Olivia's assignment was to help them locate the machine parts in which one was stolen...If it had just been that simple that the red had their own they unearthed, then there would be no need to even introduce that aspect into the season 3 story line...So IMO it was to make us think about it.

But even with the general premises presented in the 2026 timeline/possible future reality that the first people are other versions of our characters most likely from a similar date in another timeline (or really another previous existing version of it) in which the machine was taken through the black hole to the beginning of it's timeline that created an alternate, the blue (Think Abrams Star Trek), there are still other holes that we have come to know as the pattern that may also be proof of other time travels, possibly creating other alternate realities and/or changes to blue/red through out it's own history...

The reason I say that last part is because in Abrams Star Trek, what's kind of curious is that even though Spock and Nero go through the same worm hole only a few minutes apart, it sent them both back in time to their same time line, but yet it spat them out 25 years apart...

Just think with Fringe if this would also be true and what happens if there are other full fledged holes...

myrtus wrote:
DarthLocke wrote:Thanks, you're right! :thumbup: (my bad: getting all the fishing/boat stuff mixed up :blush: ) It was a Bishop and 'Henry' is equally a Peter Bishop association....but I also remembered that the FBI agent, a friend and collegue of Olivia's, who died at the expense of John Mosley, was Henry Jacobson...he had said to have been on the case when the beacon appeared before in 1985....1985 of course was the year Peter wads taken and the year Olivia and Peter met...

Good call about Jacobson! :cool: So the beacon appeared for the first time in 1985? I didn't know that. I wonder what that means :hmm:



First I was reffering to Peter's non existence as a type of reset because, firstly they didn't create new branch off(s) via time travel/black hole---instead memory within the timeline(s) has changed and the two are ajoined by a bridge..Secondly
Spoiler (Click to reveal/hide)
the writers and cast are also referring to what Peter did as a "reset")


there can be more than one way to create an alternate reality...just as there might be more than one way to create a "new you".

Secondly let me get some of the transcript from The Arrival....


OLIVIA: What can you tell me about Quantico? Nineteen-Eighty-Seven?
HENRY JACOBSON: Master Sergeant Stuart Malick. He was at his post at the Marine base on the night of June Twenty-Second. His job was to watch the motion sensors, perimeter security, to ensure that there was no breach at the base. Except on that night, the sensors went nuts. What we found was this. Metallic cylinder, twenty-four inches tall, twelve inches in diameter. He assumed it fell from the sky. That perhaps it was a piece of a satellite. Except it wasn't. Stranger still, although it seemed to be a solid piece of hard metal, - it was vibrating.
OLIVIA: At two megahertz. Then again at four.
HENRY JACOBSON: There's another?
OLIVIA: Where is this one? Still at Quantico?
HENRY JACOBSON: I was called in to investigate. We determined it was transmitting something. A signal that we couldn't decode. Forty-eight hours after we found it, there was an explosion unlike anything I'd ever seen. It went through the floor to the basement below. It exploded down - and was gone. I'll give you my files, whatever you need. But this was a weird one, Olivia - and if it's happening again, as a friend, I'd ask you to stay as far away from this thing as you can.


It doesn't say for sure if there were more instances before these two times, but that this is the second time that the viewers, Olivia, and Henry J. know of.

and my bad, as real1 caught, it's 1987...
Last edited by DarthLocke on Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Long story

Postby real1 on Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:42 pm

Henry Jacobson...he had said to have been on the case when the beacon appeared before in 1985....1985 of course was the year Peter wads taken and the year Olivia and Peter met...


It's 1987 ... well , it's after 1985 .. which mean after Walter took red Peter . s1 " the arrival "

There is one argument against the red universe being the original one, though. Our Walter sent the machine back to the past in the blue universe. He with Peter and maybe Astrid and Ella were the First People. It makes sense that the red universe originated from the blue one, thus getting its own copy of the machine.


So the meaning of first people is just they send back the BBM from future to present .. so they called them first people ?? :bored:

Well , i think there is another future will come to pass and will have the original first people in it maybe Nina broyles and robert Bishop . :whistle: :roll:

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Re: Long story

Postby DarthLocke on Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:35 pm

real1 wrote:Henry Jacobson...he had said to have been on the case when the beacon appeared before in 1985....1985 of course was the year Peter wads taken and the year Olivia and Peter met...

It's 1987 ... well , it's after 1985 .. which mean after Walter took red Peter . s1 " the arrival "

There is one argument against the red universe being the original one, though. Our Walter sent the machine back to the past in the blue universe. He with Peter and maybe Astrid and Ella were the First People. It makes sense that the red universe originated from the blue one, thus getting its own copy of the machine.

So the meaning of first people is just they send back the BBM from future to present .. so they called them first people ?? :bored:

Well , i think there is another future will come to pass and will have the original first people in it maybe Nina broyles and robert Bishop . :whistle: :roll:


Yeah I am all kinds of glitches this week! :lol: :P Sorry about this guys! What has happened to my brain!?! :rofl: --but because Walter hides in Robert's grave, and because Mosley went out of his way to comment about Robert to Peter, I still think there is a "Peter" connection to the beacon...Plus I think the Beacon was something that was referenced in Brown Betty, IMO making it something important.

Pattern with ERT/TER

Rob-ERT (3-3)---->Wal-TER (3-3)---->Pe-TER (2-3)

And then Henry just retains ER....?????
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Re: Long story

Postby myrtus on Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:06 pm

DarthLocke wrote:First I was reffering to Peter's non existence as a type of reset because, firstly they didn't create new branch off(s) via time travel/black hole---instead memory within the timeline(s) has changed and the two are ajoined by a bridge..Secondly
Spoiler (Click to reveal/hide)
the writers and cast are also referring to what Peter did as a "reset")

Oh, I'm aware of that reset. Not a fan of it. I just mentioned the reset on White Tulip, as a confirmation to your "...nor does it mean there won't be, or have already been other resets", meaning that yes, there has been one small reset on the show already, but nothing
Spoiler (Click to reveal/hide)
as major as they are going to do. Which is go on with the show without one of the supposedly "important" :roll: characters.


Secondly let me get some of the transcript from The Arrival....

It doesn't say for sure if there were more instances before these two times, but that this is the second time that the viewers, Olivia, and Henry J. know of.

and my bad, as real1 caught, it's 1987...

1987 it is then! Nothing to do with Peter's kidnapping.
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Re: Long story

Postby DarthLocke on Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:25 pm

myrtus wrote:
DarthLocke wrote:First I was reffering to Peter's non existence as a type of reset because, firstly they didn't create new branch off(s) via time travel/black hole---instead memory within the timeline(s) has changed and the two are ajoined by a bridge..Secondly
Spoiler (Click to reveal/hide)
the writers and cast are also referring to what Peter did as a "reset")

Oh, I'm aware of that reset. Not a fan of it. I just mentioned the reset on White Tulip, as a confirmation to your "...nor does it mean there won't be, or have already been other resets", meaning that yes, there has been one small reset on the show already, but nothing
Spoiler (Click to reveal/hide)
as major as they are going to do. Which is go on with the show without one of the supposedly "important" :roll: characters.


Secondly let me get some of the transcript from The Arrival....

It doesn't say for sure if there were more instances before these two times, but that this is the second time that the viewers, Olivia, and Henry J. know of.

and my bad, as real1 caught, it's 1987...

1987 it is then! Nothing to do with Peter's kidnapping.


No, but it could still have something to do with Peter...maybe 1987 was around the time where Walter was able to get him to forget?????

Like I said, I am sorry I am a little "off" this week...

and with the other resets I wasn't referring White tulip, but possible other versions of Peter from other resets (like the one we will witness) keep using the machines to cause more resets...just as an idea to throw out there.
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Re: Long story

Postby real1 on Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:05 am

DarthLocke wrote:
real1 wrote:Henry Jacobson...he had said to have been on the case when the beacon appeared before in 1985....1985 of course was the year Peter wads taken and the year Olivia and Peter met...

It's 1987 ... well , it's after 1985 .. which mean after Walter took red Peter . s1 " the arrival "

There is one argument against the red universe being the original one, though. Our Walter sent the machine back to the past in the blue universe. He with Peter and maybe Astrid and Ella were the First People. It makes sense that the red universe originated from the blue one, thus getting its own copy of the machine.

So the meaning of first people is just they send back the BBM from future to present .. so they called them first people ?? :bored:

Well , i think there is another future will come to pass and will have the original first people in it maybe Nina broyles and robert Bishop . :whistle: :roll:


Yeah I am all kinds of glitches this week! :lol: :P Sorry about this guys! What has happened to my brain!?! :rofl: --but because Walter hides in Robert's grave, and because Mosley went out of his way to comment about Robert to Peter, I still think there is a "Peter" connection to the beacon...Plus I think the Beacon was something that was referenced in Brown Betty, IMO making it something important.

Pattern with ERT/TER

Rob-ERT (3-3)---->Wal-TER (3-3)---->Pe-TER (2-3)

And then Henry just retains ER....?????


It looks like not just about the story you are mixing also the posts :lol: :rofl: , love you though Darth :wub: , even your glitches are valuable too .. you let the one to go back and see what did happen . :)

What if Robert who did build the BBM ... he has his signature of the horse ...... what if .... he did it from the past .. that he did discover something about DNA .. and he hide it in red Peter not blue Peter ... assuming that blue Peter hasn't future .. he has to die .. and red Peter meant to live :hmm:

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Re: Long story

Postby myrtus on Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:30 am

DarthLocke wrote:No, but it could still have something to do with Peter...maybe 1987 was around the time where Walter was able to get him to forget?????

Like I said, I am sorry I am a little "off" this week...

and with the other resets I wasn't referring White tulip, but possible other versions of Peter from other resets (like the one we will witness) keep using the machines to cause more resets...just as an idea to throw out there.

I think they managed to brainwash Peter a few months after he was kidnapped. I don't think the beacon has anything to do with Peter anyway. Didn't it appear in some military location in 1987? I don't remember if it was or not, but it looked some official kind of place.

No need to apologize, with so many details, it's difficult to remember them all.

Oh, I see. There could have been all kinds of resets with Peter, but they haven't happened on screen, so...
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Re: Long story

Postby vaferin5 on Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:38 pm

Myrth,

I have the feeling we had a previous minor reset before “White Tulip”. I still can’t remember it. Mmm. Let’s see if I can remind and I get back to you all on that one.

I agree with you, Peter’s saving has been one of the most humanity expenses ever. I like Peter, but I still have problems deciding whether to save him is/was worthy enough to justify it.

In Mexico, “V” S2 started four weeks ago. Yesterday’s ep touch a familiar them. Erika must decide between choosing killing someone at the expense of her own son’s life and destiny over humanity’s. She chooses humanity, but Ryan it seem he couldn’t. Ryan seems to choose saving his daughter no matter what the World consequences might be.

This theme, I guess you already know how I feel about it. Fringe had the tendency to be quite ego centered. Walter lived around his own life, will, desires and purposes. Olivia swirls around her love – Peter. For Altivia also everything is about herself and how clever and smart she can be. Walternate… S3 is the season when most of our characters are switching from being selfish into becoming more aware that the World doesn’t swirl around themselves. They have been struggle becoming more conscious about it and learning how to let go.

In a way, as you say, it was the season to make amends, even in the B stories. White Tulip, 6B, Marionette, etc.

About who birth first, what if Walter sent the BBM to the Blue one for in it there were more chances for the plan to work out? I mean, if the red is condemned to repeat its past out of sobriety – Walternate, Brandonate, Bolivia are good examples of it -, the blue one is where people can still change – Bolivia could change after living in Blue, AltBroyles changes out of contamination with Olivia and so did Henry.

I like the idea of Ella being 1st People. If so, would she have chosen Olivia? Chose her as her aunt? Or at least, intervene in Olivia’s fate?

As for saving her ex boyfriend, exactly! Olivia can sacrifice anything out of love!

Hehehe, yes the writer are now beyond bipolar!! If one were to keep a track on their continuity mistakes, well soap operas are then perfect!!!

DarthLocke,

Exactly my point, the blue world is “the second chance”.

As for the unearth BBM, it goes with my theory. If Walter sent it to the blue world – the second chance one – of course all parts of it are here. If Bell – and this could have so much collateral damages and thoughts around it – helped Walternate replicate the BBM, maybe, there were parts of it Bell were not involved in. That’s why they need to steal them from the blue.

If we follow this track of thoughts, is Bell 1st people? If he is, why would he help Walternate to have his own BBM? Or is Bell like Lucifer in his relationship with God? He used to be the most beloved. He used to know everything in such a way that he decided to defy God himself. That was his sin so he was thrown away (down) and the Archangel Michael fill in – Biblical Grandmother’s stuff. In a way, it sometimes feels as if Bell was exiled from the blue. Maybe by choice, by mistakes, who knows.


“But even with the general premises presented in the 2026 timeline/possible future reality that the first people are other versions of our characters most likely from a similar date in another timeline (or really another previous existing version of it) in which the machine was taken through the black hole to the beginning of it's timeline that created an alternate, the blue (Think Abrams Star Trek), there are still other holes that we have come to know as the pattern that may also be proof of other time travels, possibly creating other alternate realities and/or changes to blue/red through out it's own history...

The reason I say that last part is because in Abrams Star Trek, what's kind of curious is that even though Spock and Nero go through the same worm hole only a few minutes apart, it sent them both back in time to their same time line, but yet it spat them out 25 years apart...”

That is what Lost is about, at least all S6. They keep on going forward and backwards in different ways at the same time all of the characters live a parallel life in an alternative time-line where the accident never happened, like now, one where Peter never existed.

“Arrival”. After all, Observers are the ones keeping track of where and where these devices show up. What if they are a kind of geography/timeline device to track possibilities and gaps? I need to think on this one more.

real1

Mmm… good argument, still, 1st people can also be considered as that even if the come from the Future. Why? Because they have the power to observe and modify every single timeline. In a way, they could be the creators of all time-lines. If so, they had to be since the beginning.

LOL the idea of Nina and Robert Bishop being the real 1st People.

DarthLocke,

“Pattern with ERT/TER

Rob-ERT (3-3)---->Wal-TER (3-3)---->Pe-TER (2-3)

And then Henry just retains ER....?????”

Would this means that instead of “evolving” to become better than our fathers, we are de evolving? Losing ourselves unless we work on this one?

Peter’s lack of memory, “Subject 13”, Peter is supposed to have been already for six months with us. So, maybe, we are in 1986. At the end of this ep, Peter, in a way, come to terms with the fact that he must let his “memories” fade. So, I think is a long way to talk about these events happening till 1987. Still, it could be. In this one, I agree with myrth.

About the DNA, can you develop more on that one?
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Re: Long story

Postby DarthLocke on Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:20 pm

^ In "Dreamscape" Peter says he was "conditioned" to not remember his dreams (possibly suggesting that his dreams were trying into his memories and truth about when/where he was really from, so Walter thought, forget the dreams, forget the truth---)

In "In Which We Meet Mr. Jones" Peter recalls Walter shocked him with a car battery when he was a kid...


In addition in "The Cure" Nina tells Peter that he used spend a lot of time with her at the equestrian center...and that she doesn't expect that he should remember...

IMO it sounds like Peter's lack of memory was a bit of a process and there might be much time he 'was' missing...

and we know there is similarities with Peter and the cortexifanners as in "Bad Dreams" Nick Lane says he thinks they (Walter, Bell, assistents) meant for us to forget....and In LSD Walter confirms this by saying the cortexifaners were "designed" to forget.
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Yet for all their evolution, they form no bonds.
Love does not exist for them. They are incapable of dreaming,
Of contemplating beauty, Of knowing something greater than themselves.
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Re: Long story

Postby real1 on Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:48 pm

vaferin5

real1

Mmm… good argument, still, 1st people can also be considered as that even if the come from the Future. Why? Because they have the power to observe and modify every single timeline. In a way, they could be the creators of all time-lines. If so, they had to be since the beginning.


Actually .. am not getting it .. that the future can change the present .. but i will act as it's ok :lol: , seriously .. if they changed the present and the choice = the future did change too ... but still ... the future did interfere and as a consequences the present did change . maybe that future did die also .. and what did remain fro it only Walter ..Ella ..Astrid and Nina .. so they worked together to send BBM back to present , maybe Astrid which did locate where to send it .. so that's why she was the one in ep6 which figured out all the location .. cuz she was thinking by the same why the future Astrid was thinking ......

Still .. I remember what Darth said to me once .. that Ella maybe having something from Olivia ... I mean .. Ella was having a vaccine after Olivia was kidnapping in S1 .... who's not saying that they did inject Ella something specific from Olivia to save her .. or even .."Soul magnets" ... so they kept Olivia alive through Ella ? :hmm:

:cool:
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Re: Long story

Postby vaferin5 on Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:05 am

DarthLocke,

That is quite an accurate track of Peter’s forgetting process! I totally agree with you and I also admit most of those dialogues, like Cortis, were not kept in my mind!!!

real1

Mmm… Ella and soul magnets. One question, if Olivia’s soul or part of her soul were injected/transferred into Ella, does that mean a soul can be divided or cloned? That would be such a huge metaphysical discussion! Uf!

As for the future… Remember Brandon’s explanation about how events, different timelines happen at the same time without overlapping each other while Observers can keep an eye at the same time on past, present and future? I’m guessing that’s how 1st People handle things. It’s like the Hebrew/Catholic perception of God. He sees everything, he knows everything and all simultaneously. Have you read Jorge Luis Borges? He was the most important Argentinean writer of the last century. One of his most famous books is the “Aleph”. According to his theory, the Aleph contains all stories, all timelines, all of all happening simultaneously. It’s the same proposal. So, the future might happen at the same time as past and present. And, certainly, if you know the future you can play backwards with past/present, and Observers, in a way, with their calculations and measures could be the one checking the effects – firefly ones – each change produces or might produce.
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