Long story

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Re: Long story

Postby real1 on Sat Jul 23, 2011 11:10 am

vaferin5 wrote:real1

Mmm… Ella and soul magnets. One question, if Olivia’s soul or part of her soul were injected/transferred into Ella, does that mean a soul can be divided or cloned? That would be such a huge metaphysical discussion! Uf!


:hmm: No , it's not work like that ! ... always make one thing is true .. which is the soul , "soul magnets" is what will keep the soul .. soul .. not another soul , clones = bodies not soul , as how did happen to William Bell , Bell lost his body but not his soul which is why he was able to come back , so ... they can re-engineer the body .. they can design the body and play on the DNA but they can not create a soul , did you get what I mean ?
Olivia's body was re-engineering .. credit for William Bell and Walter Bishop , AltBranden was right .. her organs is worthy to study !!!

vaferin5 wrote:As for the future… Remember Brandon’s explanation about how events, different timelines happen at the same time without overlapping each other while Observers can keep an eye at the same time on past, present and future? I’m guessing that’s how 1st People handle things. It’s like the Hebrew/Catholic perception of God. He sees everything, he knows everything and all simultaneously. Have you read Jorge Luis Borges? He was the most important Argentinean writer of the last century. One of his most famous books is the “Aleph”. According to his theory, the Aleph contains all stories, all timelines, all of all happening simultaneously. It’s the same proposal. So, the future might happen at the same time as past and present. And, certainly, if you know the future you can play backwards with past/present, and Observers, in a way, with their calculations and measures could be the one checking the effects – firefly ones – each change produces or might produce.


Actually no I didn't hear or read that book , lately I was reading "Atlas Shrugged" for Ayn Rand . Honestly I don't believe every thing in any religion I read all and see it all .. i conclusion it by i believe there is God after all ! . for Fringe's story ... how i see it .. that there is one earth and multi universes .... it's like photoshop .. multi layers for one photo .. each universe is over the other ... let's say ... Blue then yellow then Red .. if we will consider there is 3 universes ( which make sense in my opinion ) .. if only the 2 .. also the blue will be the 1st then the red ... why ? the blue's color is symbol of cold and let's say .. it's the air ... the cold air will always go down .. be first .. and the red's color is symbol of hot and let's say it's also the air .. the hot air will always go up .. so 2ed .. and in this case the red is over the blue .... but if the yellow will be in the middle ( which make sense) then the red can't collapse the blue .... the blue in this case will play the structure of any universe will be there ... it's the first stand of all the universes ..... now i talked about the existence .. but what about the time ?

The time will be as not exist in this case ..... because the time will play a role of probability ... nothing is happening because it's happening ... every thing is happening because it has to happen ... time is just matter of semantics as how Sam Wies said .... so .. .... so

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Re: Long story

Postby vaferin5 on Thu Aug 04, 2011 4:53 am

Sorry for being apart. Too much work.
Let’s see, real1, O is a re-engineered human so that she can tune with different abilities thanks of Corti? Like Peter is tuned with the BBM? Does Corti transforms or just increases our own DNA possibilities/abilities?
More questions: what about purple? Yellow is a component but purple is either the origin of red/blue or the result of red/blue. Purple is the color of transformation according to the Chi Kung, Purple is the color for money and power, the color for mourning or getting married (life/death) If there is another – there must be thousands but just to keep it tight – world it should be purple.
My new theory is that the 1st People lived in a Purple World. For whatever reason, they messed it up and divided into 2 different worlds: red/blue. These worlds have developed as twins. As long as they are and stay independent they are healthy and okay. The problem comes when it turns out they need the same heart, kidney, lungs or whatever essential part we need to live and could not get separated. As long as there is a bridge to connect them – that’s is what Peter tried to give them – or as long as they live apart, they can survive.
What turns disruptive are the collateral damages caused by ego, ambition. Maybe 1st People’s arrogance provoked all this mess and maybe that’s why they look forward (backward) to heal their mistakes, restore balance and hold the 2 worlds alive. Otherwise, not only would they had destroyed their own original Purple World but also their children red/blue.
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Re: Long story

Postby real1 on Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:50 am

Hi vaferin5 welcome back :)

O is a re-engineered human so that she can tune with different abilities thanks of Corti? Like Peter is tuned with the BBM? Does Corti transforms or just increases our own DNA possibilities/abilities?


BBM and Peter is thing , Olivia with cortixephan is something else I think , BBM is a machine human made and Peter is look like a part of a machine .... I mean .. he is operating it .. can drive it , so who ever build it .. can re-programmed to work with any one else , but Olivia and cortixephan .. as how it seem .. the corixephan is just perfect on Olivia .. as if the cortixephan is part from Olivia not the other way around , at least that's how i understand it maybe am wrong i don't know :)

More questions: what about purple? Yellow is a component but purple is either the origin of red/blue or the result of red/blue. Purple is the color of transformation according to the Chi Kung, Purple is the color for money and power, the color for mourning or getting married (life/death) If there is another – there must be thousands but just to keep it tight – world it should be purple.


There was a good topic for Darth about colors , purple split in red and blue , but how I see it now and after the end of S3 ... no .. the red side is side by itself and blue side is side by itself , the twins are look alike but not the same soul , each one has his/her identity and no one can replace the other one or be a spare for the other one , i don't think it's work by that ,

The problem comes when it turns out they need the same heart, kidney, lungs or whatever essential part we need to live and could not get separated. As long as there is a bridge to connect them – that’s is what Peter tried to give them – or as long as they live apart, they can survive.
What turns disruptive are the collateral damages caused by ego, ambition.


I think .. we can't take what we lose from the others or the way around , each one has a unique identity .. a existence by it own , if we lost the heart .. you can't replace it from another one ... well there is a donation :) but to take it by force you can't .. it will be like forest .. like animals .. the strongest will live and the weakest will die .... to build a civilization it will be translated by ethics by the way to live .. by the way to talk .. not by destruction others to live a life .. that's not a life .. that's the forest and the animals not human .

Maybe 1st People’s arrogance provoked all this mess and maybe that’s why they look forward (backward) to heal their mistakes, restore balance and hold the 2 worlds alive. Otherwise, not only would they had destroyed their own original Purple World but also their children red/blue.


1st people .. they want from us to believe that they are the future people ( Walter Astrid and Ella ) according to the "Day we died " but I don't get it .. and I need more explanation for that in S4 .. I hope so

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Re: Long story

Postby DarthLocke on Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:23 am

real1 wrote:Hi vaferin5 welcome back :)

O is a re-engineered human so that she can tune with different abilities thanks of Corti? Like Peter is tuned with the BBM? Does Corti transforms or just increases our own DNA possibilities/abilities?


BBM and Peter is thing , Olivia with cortixephan is something else I think , BBM is a machine human made and Peter is look like a part of a machine .... I mean .. he is operating it .. can drive it , so who ever build it .. can re-programmed to work with any one else , but Olivia and cortixephan .. as how it seem .. the corixephan is just perfect on Olivia .. as if the cortixephan is part from Olivia not the other way around , at least that's how i understand it maybe am wrong i don't know :)

More questions: what about purple? Yellow is a component but purple is either the origin of red/blue or the result of red/blue. Purple is the color of transformation according to the Chi Kung, Purple is the color for money and power, the color for mourning or getting married (life/death) If there is another – there must be thousands but just to keep it tight – world it should be purple.


There was a good topic for Darth about colors , purple split in red and blue , but how I see it now and after the end of S3 ... no .. the red side is side by itself and blue side is side by itself , the twins are look alike but not the same soul , each one has his/her identity and no one can replace the other one or be a spare for the other one , i don't think it's work by that ,

The problem comes when it turns out they need the same heart, kidney, lungs or whatever essential part we need to live and could not get separated. As long as there is a bridge to connect them – that’s is what Peter tried to give them – or as long as they live apart, they can survive.
What turns disruptive are the collateral damages caused by ego, ambition.


I think .. we can't take what we lose from the others or the way around , each one has a unique identity .. a existence by it own , if we lost the heart .. you can't replace it from another one ... well there is a donation :) but to take it by force you can't .. it will be like forest .. like animals .. the strongest will live and the weakest will die .... to build a civilization it will be translated by ethics by the way to live .. by the way to talk .. not by destruction others to live a life .. that's not a life .. that's the forest and the animals not human .

Maybe 1st People’s arrogance provoked all this mess and maybe that’s why they look forward (backward) to heal their mistakes, restore balance and hold the 2 worlds alive. Otherwise, not only would they had destroyed their own original Purple World but also their children red/blue.


1st people .. they want from us to believe that they are the future people ( Walter Astrid and Ella ) according to the "Day we died " but I don't get it .. and I need more explanation for that in S4 .. I hope so

:cool:



We have to assume the first people are just pre-existing other versions of our characters (both blue and red). That's why the 2026 time period indicated the machine could go through time AGAIN, because it already had in another timeline --and we have to assume that the blue universe is what the machine and 'the first people of the first timeline' made (because this is where/when we see the machine get "unearthed") and then this gets extended to the red.

I whole HEARTedly agree with your last paragraph, real1, It's about acceptance and faith and being willing to give up something for those we love and hope will survive...I think to some degree that was Peter's and possibly the original purpose of the machine's intent, but I think like with all good intentions things might go wrong before their truly set right.
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Re: Long story

Postby vaferin5 on Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:41 am

Let’s see if I understand this:

Peter is an accessory to the BBM
Olivia thanks to Cortixephan has improved her DNA.
If so Olivia is more valuable than Peter for you cannot substitute her. Peter, instead, can be substituted as long as the designer of the BBM decides to tune it with some else. Yet, Olivia has the ability to connect on her own will with the BBM not matter what the designer wants?
If blue has been blue since the begin as so has red and only when they combine other colors emerge in accordance with the percentage each color has present in the mix, they both could be original timelines. What makes noise to me is where the 1st People dwell present/past/future? That’s what opened the opportunity of another color. BTW, TV colors are the result of mixing red, blue and green. In painting you have red, blue and yellow. So does that mean we might have a green color? Only when the three colors (BTW, it would be awesome if each one of our trio belongs or has a color that defined them) combine the white flows out in light but in painting, if you mix them you get black. I’ll stop here otherwise I might be tempted to get into a philosophical discussion not precisely around Fringe! 
I don’t know if you have this expression in English, but it comes to the eternal discussion of what came first, “the hen or the egg” – BTW, they always forget mentioning the cock  So, if they started on their own of after an original world split we won’t know it for the time being, I guess.
As for the twins, let me be more clear: Siamese twins share part of these organs – one or more than one. You can’t tear them apart for they died. If holes are allowing both worlds to permeate whatever from one world into the other, there might be now in a point where unless they have this bridge they can collide if they try to stay apart of destroy the other one in order to survive.
Well, what if 1st People are precisely that: the origin or the creators. They would be the future but the past or just a bigger layer – Brandon’s theory – in which there is no past, present or future because everything is happening at the same time. In which case, they know which might be the consequences and collateral damages of every firefly.

-- Merged Double Post --

Hey, DarthLocke,

I was answering while you submitted yours 
I totally agree with you, 1st people pre-existed. I haven’t considered that they were blue in its origin. Two things to consider: Red has a more developed technology, but, on the other side, they buried or that’s how it looks like, more BBM parts in the Blue one than in the red one.
Quick question: Why couldn’t they find all parts of the BBM in the Red? Was it because they didn’t have them or because they didn’t know where to look for them or they didn’t have time to waste?
And yes, it all has to do with faith and love.
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Re: Long story

Postby real1 on Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:16 am

Peter is an accessory to the BBM
Olivia thanks to Cortixephan has improved her DNA.


I didn't meant Peter as an accessory :| but the BBM can be operated by Peter as if BBM is programmed to work like that which suggest that BBM can be re-programmed to work with any one else . on the other hand , cortexiphan is perfect on Olivia and yet we don't know if it part of her mind or if she had it by natural or it's simple that Bell created and worked perfectly on Olivia .. there is difference .

If so Olivia is more valuable than Peter for you cannot substitute her. Peter, instead, can be substituted as long as the designer of the BBM decides to tune it with some else. Yet, Olivia has the ability to connect on her own will with the BBM not matter what the designer wants?


Why not ? I mean Olivia is more valuable than Peter where is the error with that ? she is more valuable as agent she is the FBI agent and the big thing she ever was wanting is that she want to save people regardless of their origin , that's her role ... she said to Peter that she is always caring for people to defend them ,Olivia is perfect in her job without knowing about her abilities .. even Walter said to her you transformed your fear in to anger which let you doing your job perfectly .

Olivia can see through the waves of BBM and can switch off with her mind , yes Peter is operating the BBM but he needs Olivia to get out of it , I think s3ep22 was clear ( at least for me and maybe am wrong but that's how i see it ) that Peter can use the BBM while Olivia standing with him at his side .. I think we don't know enough about how the BBM is working only that Peter can operate it with the existence of Olivia not Altolivia ...... and maybe Olivia who's operating the BBM but how ever designed it was letting Peter's picture on the drawing as a protection for Olivia ?? :hmm:

Olivia as a creator Peter as a destruct-er ... maybe that's how the BBM will work and we didn't see it yet ?

I don’t know if you have this expression in English, but it comes to the eternal discussion of what came first, “the hen or the egg” – BTW, they always forget mentioning the cock  So, if they started on their own of after an original world split we won’t know it for the time being, I guess.


No i don't know about it but it's nice to learn something new :) , you let me remember what Walter said to Olivia Peter and Astrid while he was showing them pictures .. he said it's always will go for the duck ! so maybe what ever they are doing now for S4 ... I mean changing the direction of the show maybe but by the end will go for the duck .. which is Olivia ??

As for the twins, let me be more clear: Siamese twins share part of these organs – one or more than one. You can’t tear them apart for they died. If holes are allowing both worlds to permeate whatever from one world into the other, there might be now in a point where unless they have this bridge they can collide if they try to stay apart of destroy the other one in order to survive.
Well, what if 1st People are precisely that: the origin or the creators. They would be the future but the past or just a bigger layer – Brandon’s theory – in which there is no past, present or future because everything is happening at the same time. In which case, they know which might be the consequences and collateral damages of every firefly.


But the original creation for both side was working without mixing the 2 sides , I mean each side was living alone , the solution is by going to the same thing , merging the 2 sides isn't a solution and i don't think that Walternate will accept that .. it will always go to ... us vs them .

I don't get the 1st people are the future people sorry for that Darth and vaferin5 I need more explanation for it in S4 am acting as if it ok !! but actually I don't get it .. .. my problem I know ! but still .....

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Re: Long story

Postby DarthLocke on Sun Aug 07, 2011 2:07 am

real1 wrote:
Peter is an accessory to the BBM
Olivia thanks to Cortixephan has improved her DNA.


I didn't meant Peter as an accessory :| but the BBM can be operated by Peter as if BBM is programmed to work like that which suggest that BBM can be re-programmed to work with any one else . on the other hand , cortexiphan is perfect on Olivia and yet we don't know if it part of her mind or if she had it by natural or it's simple that Bell created and worked perfectly on Olivia .. there is difference .

If so Olivia is more valuable than Peter for you cannot substitute her. Peter, instead, can be substituted as long as the designer of the BBM decides to tune it with some else. Yet, Olivia has the ability to connect on her own will with the BBM not matter what the designer wants?


Why not ? I mean Olivia is more valuable than Peter where is the error with that ? she is more valuable as agent she is the FBI agent and the big thing she ever was wanting is that she want to save people regardless of their origin , that's her role ... she said to Peter that she is always caring for people to defend them ,Olivia is perfect in her job without knowing about her abilities .. even Walter said to her you transformed your fear in to anger which let you doing your job perfectly .

Olivia can see through the waves of BBM and can switch off with her mind , yes Peter is operating the BBM but he needs Olivia to get out of it , I think s3ep22 was clear ( at least for me and maybe am wrong but that's how i see it ) that Peter can use the BBM while Olivia standing with him at his side .. I think we don't know enough about how the BBM is working only that Peter can operate it with the existence of Olivia not Altolivia ...... and maybe Olivia who's operating the BBM but how ever designed it was letting Peter's picture on the drawing as a protection for Olivia ?? :hmm:

Olivia as a creator Peter as a destruct-er ... maybe that's how the BBM will work and we didn't see it yet ?

I don’t know if you have this expression in English, but it comes to the eternal discussion of what came first, “the hen or the egg” – BTW, they always forget mentioning the cock  So, if they started on their own of after an original world split we won’t know it for the time being, I guess.


No i don't know about it but it's nice to learn something new :) , you let me remember what Walter said to Olivia Peter and Astrid while he was showing them pictures .. he said it's always will go for the duck ! so maybe what ever they are doing now for S4 ... I mean changing the direction of the show maybe but by the end will go for the duck .. which is Olivia ??

As for the twins, let me be more clear: Siamese twins share part of these organs – one or more than one. You can’t tear them apart for they died. If holes are allowing both worlds to permeate whatever from one world into the other, there might be now in a point where unless they have this bridge they can collide if they try to stay apart of destroy the other one in order to survive.
Well, what if 1st People are precisely that: the origin or the creators. They would be the future but the past or just a bigger layer – Brandon’s theory – in which there is no past, present or future because everything is happening at the same time. In which case, they know which might be the consequences and collateral damages of every firefly.


But the original creation for both side was working without mixing the 2 sides , I mean each side was living alone , the solution is by going to the same thing , merging the 2 sides isn't a solution and i don't think that Walternate will accept that .. it will always go to ... us vs them .

I don't get the 1st people are the future people sorry for that Darth and vaferin5 I need more explanation for it in S4 am acting as if it ok !! but actually I don't get it .. .. my problem I know ! but still .....

:cool:



It's the idea that there is one timeline, but it became two...

If you go back to how I explained it with an old lady making a baby clone of herself and sending it back in time...then you can see where I am going....IMO the universes are like this...the old one started over by putting future knowledge (people who existed in the future of the original timeline and their tech) in the past which cause an alternate reality (blue), but for whatever specific reason, some of the history from the original parent universe continued to repeat in it's genetic expansion--->offspring...So if some things repeat, then we might say, if the original opened a door to an make analternate reality, then there's a chance (maybe even a good chance) that the alternate reality will do the same...they did, but back onto the parent time line--in the parent timeline's past---so now they appear as twins, who, because they were made from the same strand of DNA/Timeline are double stuggeling to fight that fate of the original timeline which we saw a possibility of in the finale, as the 2026 timeline explained that Peter had to go back to where his body was in 2011 and not let the 2026 timeline come to pass or further reality offspring with further insane tight entanglements might persue---let alone Peter most likely doesn't want blue Olivia to die like that....So as of right now the only option we seem to have to is be able to work within the construct of what we already have by using a method of a reset and variable exchanges in time.

We have NEVER seen the original timeline, real1! we can only guess what it was like from reoccuring events and dynamics that the red and blue have been sharing between them..the constants the similarities (soldiers to fight other universes: Cortexifaners/Shapeshifters, terrorism: ZFT/Day of Enders/Conrad --->Cases that plays on apotheosis: Life Extension/People back from the dead/time traveling/non aging/legacy/SUPER HUMAN EVOLUTION (Observers?-German Themes)--fringe science--control) and by what we see continue to occur with this reset..
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Re: Long story

Postby real1 on Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:08 am

The problem Darth is we are not sure if that future is still happening or not , ok if we will consider the time = 0 so the future present and past are happening in the same time how we could possibly justify the existence ? .. how possibly the one can be in future present and past in the same time ? body and soul ?

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Re: Long story

Postby DarthLocke on Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:22 am

real1 wrote:The problem Darth is we are not sure if that future is still happening or not , ok if we will consider the time = 0 so the future present and past are happening in the same time how we could possibly justify the existence ? .. how possibly the one can be in future present and past in the same time ? body and soul ?

:cool:


Because so far with the exception of Peck's method and the machine(s), all alternate realities have been made with opening doors (black holes).


---That's right real1, we don't know if 'the 2026' WE SAW will come to pas,s because Peter apparently had an opportunity to to "mentally' experience this reality via a possible future Walter...

In 'The Firefly September explains that many times (futures) are happening simultamously (because in "M theory" there could be infinity), but September tells Peter he can see them all (which Peter we learned could see a future too), but does not know which one will come to pass...We have to assume that the reason a lot of things that have happened in both timelines have to do with the one that came before--the one where the machine comes from, or Peter wouldn't have received the information that history is trying to repeat itself and it can't because then neither universe will survive (but who knows about the creation of others from that point??)

I chalk Peter's experience as a couple of the key words in title sequences, "Temporal Plactisty" and "Brain Porting" --Both words might indicate something along the line of Cassimar Effect in which if you would have reality and/or realities that were influenced by a repeated equation/simulation, which means their origins rely on EVERYTHING that came before, then you get a situation where 'if this, then that" has some kind of TIGHT ratio probability...DNA is a better analogy because you could look at people, places, times, and events as 'the make up of a timeline or reality', and there for the things that repeat are considered prodominant traits (traits that would be hard to alter)...so this future shows itself as something fluid --"a maybe future" ---so in this future we get a glimpse that if we don't change what we have been doing, we are going to die and maybe even create another offspring that's going to do the same things...so we have genetically alter what we already have.

IMO Peter had an outside the body experience...his BODY never left 2011---just his mind did---this is why I compared him Desmond in LOST, because Desmond was able to conscience time travel and see other timelines (Charlie Pace-multiple deaths), Time Periods (different variations of his past/as his memory had blanks in some spots until he traveled back/Mrs Hawking Pre-warning), and an astral plane/reality reserved to act out the transition between corporeal lifetimes--'The Flash Sideways'....death.

We might assume this plane exists in the Fringe universe too, since William Bell's essence could be summoned back into the corporeal world after death too...
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Re: Long story

Postby real1 on Tue Aug 09, 2011 7:45 pm

Because so far with the exception of Peck's method and the machine(s), all alternate realities have been made with opening doors (black holes).


Peck was cheating the roles of time .. was bending the time and every action will delete the other action unless he will stop do it again and again , which is why the people were dying and then coming back because they weren't suppose to die at the first place till he murdered the last 6 persons and went back to where his fiancee where and he chose to die with her . the question is : that 6 persons were still dead ? ... Peck was able to left a letter for Walter .. which suggest that Peck was knowing all long what did happen in every time he was cheating the time ... so that's will suggest that Peter is also will be remembering what did happen .

That's right real1, we don't know if 'the 2026' WE SAW will come to pas,s because Peter apparently had an opportunity to to "mentally' experience this reality via a possible future Walter...


The problem there no escape from that future cuz Walter already have done it by sending BBM back through the wormhole . :S

In 'The Firefly September explains that many times (futures) are happening simultamously (because in "M theory" there could be infinity), but September tells Peter he can see them all (which Peter we learned could see a future too), but does not know which one will come to pass...We have to assume that the reason a lot of things that have happened in both timelines have to do with the one that came before--the one where the machine comes from, or Peter wouldn't have received the information that history is trying to repeat itself and it can't because then neither universe will survive (but who knows about the creation of others from that point??)


You mean September told Walter not Peter , September said to Peter : it's must be difficult being a father , I really was thinking about Bell's experiment how to transfer a soul in to a machine .. cuz the BBM was connecting to Peter in a biological level according to Walter .. which permit to the Peter to go to the future without transferring his body ... so the question will remain .. how possibly the one can be in future present and the past ... with soul and body ?

I chalk Peter's experience as a couple of the key words in title sequences, "Temporal Plactisty" and "Brain Porting" --Both words might indicate something along the line of Cassimar Effect in which if you would have reality and/or realities that were influenced by a repeated equation/simulation, which means their origins rely on EVERYTHING that came before, then you get a situation where 'if this, then that" has some kind of TIGHT ratio probability...DNA is a better analogy because you could look at people, places, times, and events as 'the make up of a timeline or reality', and there for the things that repeat are considered prodominant traits (traits that would be hard to alter)...so this future shows itself as something fluid --"a maybe future" ---so in this future we get a glimpse that if we don't change what we have been doing, we are going to die and maybe even create another offspring that's going to do the same things...so we have genetically alter what we already have.


You let me starting to think that what we are seeing is the past not the present ! I mean .. that all the seasons so far are the past .. and what's happening is the future ... ..red side are dead .. Olivia is dead ... and the 1st people are trying to fix the things in this mutation time ????

IMO Peter had an outside the body experience...his BODY never left 2011---just his mind did---this is why I compared him Desmond in LOST, because Desmond was able to conscience time travel and see other timelines (Charlie Pace-multiple deaths), Time Periods (different variations of his past/as his memory had blanks in some spots until he traveled back/Mrs Hawking Pre-warning), and an astral plane/reality reserved to act out the transition between corporeal lifetimes--'The Flash Sideways'....death.

We might assume this plane exists in the Fringe universe too, since William Bell's essence could be summoned back into the corporeal world after death too...


Yes , his body never left 2011 .. but his mind conscience did .... my question is .. how possibly the future can be happening with the same person soul and body while still in the present they didn't arrive yet to that future ? .. only if we are seeing the past now !! :hmm:

I don't know "Lost" .... so I will stick with Fringe :lol: .....

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Re: Long story

Postby DarthLocke on Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:02 pm

real1 wrote:
Because so far with the exception of Peck's method and the machine(s), all alternate realities have been made with opening doors (black holes).


Peck was cheating the roles of time .. was bending the time and every action will delete the other action unless he will stop do it again and again , which is why the people were dying and then coming back because they weren't suppose to die at the first place till he murdered the last 6 persons and went back to where his fiancee where and he chose to die with her . the question is : that 6 persons were still dead ? ... Peck was able to left a letter for Walter .. which suggest that Peck was knowing all long what did happen in every time he was cheating the time ... so that's will suggest that Peter is also will be remembering what did happen .

That's right real1, we don't know if 'the 2026' WE SAW will come to pas,s because Peter apparently had an opportunity to to "mentally' experience this reality via a possible future Walter...


The problem there no escape from that future cuz Walter already have done it by sending BBM back through the wormhole . :S

In 'The Firefly September explains that many times (futures) are happening simultamously (because in "M theory" there could be infinity), but September tells Peter he can see them all (which Peter we learned could see a future too), but does not know which one will come to pass...We have to assume that the reason a lot of things that have happened in both timelines have to do with the one that came before--the one where the machine comes from, or Peter wouldn't have received the information that history is trying to repeat itself and it can't because then neither universe will survive (but who knows about the creation of others from that point??)


You mean September told Walter not Peter , September said to Peter : it's must be difficult being a father , I really was thinking about Bell's experiment how to transfer a soul in to a machine .. cuz the BBM was connecting to Peter in a biological level according to Walter .. which permit to the Peter to go to the future without transferring his body ... so the question will remain .. how possibly the one can be in future present and the past ... with soul and body ?

I chalk Peter's experience as a couple of the key words in title sequences, "Temporal Plactisty" and "Brain Porting" --Both words might indicate something along the line of Cassimar Effect in which if you would have reality and/or realities that were influenced by a repeated equation/simulation, which means their origins rely on EVERYTHING that came before, then you get a situation where 'if this, then that" has some kind of TIGHT ratio probability...DNA is a better analogy because you could look at people, places, times, and events as 'the make up of a timeline or reality', and there for the things that repeat are considered prodominant traits (traits that would be hard to alter)...so this future shows itself as something fluid --"a maybe future" ---so in this future we get a glimpse that if we don't change what we have been doing, we are going to die and maybe even create another offspring that's going to do the same things...so we have genetically alter what we already have.


You let me starting to think that what we are seeing is the past not the present ! I mean .. that all the seasons so far are the past .. and what's happening is the future ... ..red side are dead .. Olivia is dead ... and the 1st people are trying to fix the things in this mutation time ????

IMO Peter had an outside the body experience...his BODY never left 2011---just his mind did---this is why I compared him Desmond in LOST, because Desmond was able to conscience time travel and see other timelines (Charlie Pace-multiple deaths), Time Periods (different variations of his past/as his memory had blanks in some spots until he traveled back/Mrs Hawking Pre-warning), and an astral plane/reality reserved to act out the transition between corporeal lifetimes--'The Flash Sideways'....death.

We might assume this plane exists in the Fringe universe too, since William Bell's essence could be summoned back into the corporeal world after death too...


Yes , his body never left 2011 .. but his mind conscience did .... my question is .. how possibly the future can be happening with the same person soul and body while still in the present they didn't arrive yet to that future ? .. only if we are seeing the past now !! :hmm:

I don't know "Lost" .... so I will stick with Fringe :lol: .....

:cool:



You have to look at blue 2026 timline as TEMPORAL --it's not real for the blue reality, yet.

in order to understand things we compare them...we can make factual statements like blue, red, and purple are all colors, and we can say if we mix red and blue together we are going to get purple....but what shade of purple??----it all depends on the specifics and the definitions of everything-----this 'future' reality is like that...in a sense we can say that if we take this reality with the way it is right now, with that reality the way it is right now, then we most likely are going to get this type of a futurereality ---this specific shade and color is probable because this is the physicallity (mechanics) of the universes....so if we want to get a different color, or shade, for whatever reason, then we have to go and change some things (the shades of the mixing colors, amounts of each color, the lighting, the mixing technique, ect) to get a different result.

William Bell's soul...or conscience lived beyond his material self, real1--it suggest that in FRINGE mythology our conscience can drift and become apart of another reality (timelime/time period, physical appearence/being) and still have an effect on a materialistic world...that's sort like what happened to Peter''s essence-- he experienced something that does exist elsewhere---but the issue is we have to see if he/we can change it's relavancy/relativity to our timelines??!

You just personally have to ask yourself what those things are--real/reality--universe, identity---what makes you, you and not somebody else? And what happens when you do want to change something about yourself??
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Re: Long story

Postby real1 on Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:02 pm

You have to look at blue 2026 timline as TEMPORAL --it's not real for the blue reality, yet.


Actually I can't ! .. the 2026 did interfere in 2011 ... so I can't ignore it .. till they will explain it :whistle:

William Bell's soul...or conscience lived beyond his material self, real1--it suggest that in FRINGE mythology our conscience can drift and become apart of another reality (timelime/time period, physical appearence/being) and still have an effect on a materialistic world...that's sort like what happened to Peter''s essence-- he experienced something that does exist elsewhere---but the issue is we have to see if he/we can change it's relavancy/relativity to our timelines??!


Actually I loved "Marionette" and "Os" , both episodes were giving a strong themes , "soul magnets" and "revive someone dead" ...... I don't think it was that simple that Bell entered Olivia's body easily ...... at least the killing of shapeshiffter had a value here ! .. that Olivia was angry ... terrified and mad which let her abilities to be activated at the same time Bell's soul found a way to enter her body .... i don't know or am not sure if Bell was jumping from body to body so he was living long life as how he said to Peter .... but we need explanation for it .

As for Peter ..... back in s2 .. Bell was surprising that Peter is doing well and holding up .. and we don't know yet about what ... maybe Peter is a clone ?

You just personally have to ask yourself what those things are--real/reality--universe, identity---what makes you, you and not somebody else? And what happens when you do want to change something about yourself??


Actually I accept every thing as long as there is an existence , you can't change the existence even by death , the one which born .. he/she will have 2 tickets .. one for life the other one for death .

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Re: Long story

Postby DarthLocke on Fri Aug 12, 2011 12:17 am

I don't they they are going to explain what Peter saw in a very specific way, I think they are going to leave it a a generalization of a possible possibility---one that Peter doesn't want to occur...other than that, just like I have been trying to attempt to explain, I don't think they will, because it is a VERY hard thing to explain...

LOST Tried Here with this Orchid Orientation Video (and then of course the whole episode "The Constant" where Desmond CONSCIENCLY time travels back to 1996, where he also learns about cassimir effect from Daniel's experiment with his rat and rate maze..)






I think unless he is simultamously traveling/flashing through multiple possible or already existing realities along side us seeing the newly created 2011, I really think the writers will leave it as it is with the information that has been given in the season 3 finale itself, with their comments after, left to our own interpretation and we will just have to go with the flow...
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Re: Long story

Postby real1 on Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:16 pm

Actually Darth I was tweeting with vaferin5 about the red side and the bridge , till I started to think that the bridge was already there as the red side is already there ! ... I mean .. as long as there is a red side existed .. there was the bridge between the 2 sides also , Peter only used the machine to discover this bridge and opened the door between the 2 sides ... which is why Bell was afraid if the door way was ever opened only one universe will survive ... which suggest that " the door way " = "the Bridge " and Bell knows about it all a long ... but he was wanting to prevent the war between the 2 sides . no one was seeing the bridge .. as no one is seeing Peter now !

So the future can play a role of the past .... I mean .. that the 1st people are interfering in the present by a way or another .... because they already done it . I hope they will explain it more ... and if they didn't .. i will take what they will give :) as always ... yeah .. even that nonsense AltOlivia :rofl: ..... well .. people do change .. don't you think ? :unsure:

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Re: Long story

Postby DarthLocke on Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:42 pm

real1 wrote:Actually Darth I was tweeting with vaferin5 about the red side and the bridge , till I started to think that the bridge was already there as the red side is already there ! ... I mean .. as long as there is a red side existed .. there was the bridge between the 2 sides also , Peter only used the machine to discover this bridge and opened the door between the 2 sides ... which is why Bell was afraid if the door way was ever opened only one universe will survive ... which suggest that " the door way " = "the Bridge " and Bell knows about it all a long ... but he was wanting to prevent the war between the 2 sides . no one was seeing the bridge .. as no one is seeing Peter now !

So the future can play a role of the past .... I mean .. that the 1st people are interfering in the present by a way or another .... because they already done it . I hope they will explain it more ... and if they didn't .. i will take what they will give :) as always ... yeah .. even that nonsense AltOlivia :rofl: ..... well .. people do change .. don't you think ? :unsure:

:cool:


I agree that it is very possible whether intentional or not, the first people are def responsible, for the possibility of this, since the Samuel Weiss' have preserved their history...and have had the knowledge passed on...

However, after just rewatching 9556KHz last night, I am a bit confused or torn about some things...The episode starts off with number stations, codes of numbers people are trying to solve, we then learn that a second energy source, a pulse that is killing people, along side the prodcast of the numbers, are on behalf of a shapeshifter....but Peter and [Red] Olivia go to the bookstore and they get the first people book, which suggests the numbers and number stations (Not the pulse) come from them....but later in the episode we figure out via Olivia killing the shapeshifter and her typewriter message, that Walternate knew about these number stations too...Astrid then finally decodes it and it has the locations of the blue universe' machine parts, preserved underground...Peter also says he thinks the number broadcast might come from over there...(but I don't know-it could come from over there at another time--another reality)

Either I am still right and the truth is the red universe was at one time the original universe and Walternate just happens to know about 'the first people' also....and/or it's more complicated as 'the first people' could also be a sudo- hoax created from some point in the red universe (past, present, future---essentually another timeline that is still in progress via time travel + "don't trust Sam Weiss") _but I also find it odd that they just disappeared unless there is an additional timeline with time travel that is involved and maybe that is another reason why the 2026 timeline may have told us about the loop(s). My best bet would be that there is still another universe, and/or another time period of a universe (like the future of the red) playing a role all through out...

On another note, I disagree about the bridge. Very early on from Walter's own "door", which Jones (ZFT) also attempts to use, we know that everytime the blue characters cross it makes a mess that has to be quarentined over there...Even with Olivia's cortexifan we see that she essentually creates "cracks" as oppossed to a door, but William Bell has to use himeself with a particle accelerator to act as a "door stop" to keep the door open long enough for them to cross back (however the catch 22 here is we don't know why red Olivia was able to cross with them, unless blue Olivia's crack was still strong enough to let whomever through) --but still the Opera house had to be quarentined---and in the possible 2026 timeline --this spot in the blue universe becomes a target of the End of Dayers sonic flash pulse bombs as they try to attempt to create blcak-hole-doors....

So IMO the machines creating a "bridge" is really like a full fledged "door stop" --and it's interesting because Liberty Island again is a place were Olivia crossed....In addition I am starting to think that Peter only knows a little of what the machine does---and I think it changes "reality" based on reading Peter's feelings...(Kind of like how the child Observer could feel Olivia --empathic?)
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