[Official] Fringe Ep. 4.01 *Season Premiere*

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Re: [Official] Fringe Ep. 4.01 *Season Premiere*

Postby supermodel on Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:41 pm

I didn't like the epi any better the second time. It wasn't bad, it just wasn't that good.

I did notice the Observers have finally clarified what happened to Peter. They keep saying he never existed, but at one point December says "they can never know the boy lived to be a man." So I think that is confirmation that he died and was therefore bever kidnapped.

And so that leads me to agree with whoever posted above that we don't have any reason for the animosity between the two universes. If Walter never kidnapped Red Peter and he just died, then did Walter ever have any reason to experiment with travel to the other side? And if not then we wouldn't have had the degredation and the attacks and really the two sides might not even know about each other. So without Peter, is there some other reason why they hate each other?
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Re: [Official] Fringe Ep. 4.01 *Season Premiere*

Postby JacobsMom on Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:08 pm

supermodel wrote:I didn't like the epi any better the second time. It wasn't bad, it just wasn't that good.

I did notice the Observers have finally clarified what happened to Peter. They keep saying he never existed, but at one point December says "they can never know the boy lived to be a man." So I think that is confirmation that he died and was therefore bever kidnapped.

And so that leads me to agree with whoever posted above that we don't have any reason for the animosity between the two universes. If Walter never kidnapped Red Peter and he just died, then did Walter ever have any reason to experiment with travel to the other side? And if not then we wouldn't have had the degredation and the attacks and really the two sides might not even know about each other. So without Peter, is there some other reason why they hate each other?


I guess I just assumed that from what we see in this time line, Walter did cross over just as before and take Peter. But from that point on, we don't know what happened to Red Peter afterwords. This would still be why there was a break between the universes and the cause for the bridge we see now. I wondered in my earlier post if The Observer, (August?), at the lake let Peter die and only saved Walter after they fell through. Or maybe Red Peter actually died the day we saw him break through the ice himself and Elizabeth didn't save him this time. I understood from what December said, in the diner, to mean that September interrupted Walternate at the wrong moment in time and instead of saving Red Peter's life as he should have, it gave our Walter the chance to save Red Peter himself. I guess until we see more of the Red universe and their characters, we won't know what happened when and if Red Peter was ever kidnapped as a child. It looked like there was a lot of hate still between the two Olivia's and that makes me think that the events happened as before.
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Re: [Official] Fringe Ep. 4.01 *Season Premiere*

Postby DarthLocke on Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:10 pm

supermodel wrote:I didn't like the epi any better the second time. It wasn't bad, it just wasn't that good.

I did notice the Observers have finally clarified what happened to Peter. They keep saying he never existed, but at one point December says "they can never know the boy lived to be a man." So I think that is confirmation that he died and was therefore bever kidnapped.

And so that leads me to agree with whoever posted above that we don't have any reason for the animosity between the two universes. If Walter never kidnapped Red Peter and he just died, then did Walter ever have any reason to experiment with travel to the other side? And if not then we wouldn't have had the degredation and the attacks and really the two sides might not even know about each other. So without Peter, is there some other reason why they hate each other?



I mean it's possible that Peter was still stolen, but maybe September didn't save him, or the cure didn't work or maybe Peter [accidentally] committed suicide at Reiden Lake?--so Walternate could still sort of be mad for a similar reason....

I would like to think that taking adult Peter out of the picture is the only way to attempt to calm Walternate down because I think his hate really came with the fact that another Walter acted as his son's father...and I just think the whole idea of another universe scares him a bit since he was never the one to go looking for such things...(Maybe he was a monotheist and sees this whole thing as Heirressy?)

I like the idea of another reason though :thumbsup: I will be anxious to see what that might be and how they got to their version of turning on the machine----I kind of hope we start dealing with a third party at some point. I keep thinking that maybe Walternate isn't responsible for the new humanoid shapeshifters and that maybe the original shapeshifters are, or ZFT is back! (or lives here again!) :hmm:
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Re: [Official] Fringe Ep. 4.01 *Season Premiere*

Postby real1 on Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:08 pm

Darth

in the 2021 timeline we get a weird explanation for how Peter could exist there...Walter says he "pulled Peter's conscience" to that future.


Actually Darth .. I don't like that future ! , well , yes Walter pulled Peter's conscience to let him see how that future is look like if he will do the same choice again ... but that's didn't a answer how Peter vanished as a body in 2011 . well maybe something went wrong at that future ....

Whatever is really going on i can only conclude that Walter, like suggested by another version of his future self in the possible 2021 time period, that he can NOW pull Peter's conscience out of the machine and bring him back and/or stabilize his existence in THIS timeline....

I mean what if the machine is like death...if you become a passenger in it--your soul will drift (peter has been alluded to a drifter prior to fringe division) to many timelines and or time periods (all realities) until someone pulls your conscience out of the machine...


:hmm: .... are you suggesting that the machine can determine what will come to pass ?

JacobsMom

I do have one question. Was the woman shape shifter we saw at the end after the shoot out with the shape shifters, the same one who was in the car accident? So now she came back to life after being examined by Walter?


First time we sow how the shapshifters were coming to blue side was in "Jackson ville" ... there were 3 shapshifters one of them didn't make it ... and now .. we have 3 shapshifters .. 2 were dead and 1 did make it .. which is that woman , the human woman is dead .. and the shapshifter did take her look like .

supermodel

I didn't like the epi any better the second time. It wasn't bad, it just wasn't that good.

I did notice the Observers have finally clarified what happened to Peter. They keep saying he never existed, but at one point December says "they can never know the boy lived to be a man." So I think that is confirmation that he died and was therefore bever kidnapped.

And so that leads me to agree with whoever posted above that we don't have any reason for the animosity between the two universes. If Walter never kidnapped Red Peter and he just died, then did Walter ever have any reason to experiment with travel to the other side? And if not then we wouldn't have had the degredation and the attacks and really the two sides might not even know about each other. So without Peter, is there some other reason why they hate each other?


:hmm: .... so many points :

- If Dec was hinting that it's ok for red Peter to be back but it must no one remember who he is ... that will suggest why red Peter was having multi identities ..... , but what I got from him that .. he served his purpose by linking the 2 sides cuz that will lead to only 1 side will live ... or why in the first place they let Sep to save him ?

- The war is not about anger or hater , it's about them or us , ZFT .

- The better question is : What Walter and Bell did do in the past ?

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Re: [Official] Fringe Ep. 4.01 *Season Premiere*

Postby DarthLocke on Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:11 pm

real1 wrote:Darth

in the 2021 timeline we get a weird explanation for how Peter could exist there...Walter says he "pulled Peter's conscience" to that future.


Actually Darth .. I don't like that future ! , well , yes Walter pulled Peter's conscience to let him see how that future is look like if he will do the same choice again ... but that's didn't a answer how Peter vanished as a body in 2011 . well maybe something went wrong at that future ....

Whatever is really going on i can only conclude that Walter, like suggested by another version of his future self in the possible 2021 time period, that he can NOW pull Peter's conscience out of the machine and bring him back and/or stabilize his existence in THIS timeline....

I mean what if the machine is like death...if you become a passenger in it--your soul will drift (peter has been alluded to a drifter prior to fringe division) to many timelines and or time periods (all realities) until someone pulls your conscience out of the machine...


:hmm: .... are you suggesting that the machine can determine what will come to pass ?


I don't think any of us like the outcome presented in 2021---although we didn't actually see the whole reality die, just blue Olivia with an implication that it will IF PETER chooses One reality (Olivia?) over the Other ---but simultamously Peter and Walter figure out with in the construct of this 2021, that another 2021 is being mirrored, and if it comes to pass will then be repeated...but this reality was needed to be seen so that Peter could make a different choice...

However going with The Christmas Carol (Ghost of Christmas Future, Past, and Present changes Scrooge) here, and what I was getting at on "what does the machine do?" poll/thread, we don't know how the machine works in terms of well everything...we don't know it it showed Peter this reality because it was the most probable to happen based on everything that has already been done --unless Peter changes it (suggesting that the machine wants to change it, but then who built and designed the original machine?) --or if that reality was presented not only because the machine wants to change it, but because it FEELS that Peter wants to save both universes, so it gives him a reality with information that is about the future and past at the same time, as a way of allowing him to know "what has been done, verses, what not to do again!

So although I think there is some predermined/simulation type things happening with all of these realities, I think the goal is to change the course to an outcome Peter desires...
Last edited by DarthLocke on Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Official] Fringe Ep. 4.01 *Season Premiere*

Postby real1 on Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:19 pm

I don't think any of us like the outcome presented in 2021---although we didn't actually see the whole reality die, just blue Olivia with an implication that it will IF PETER chooses One reality (Olivia?) over the Other ---but simultamously Peter and Walter figure out with in the construct of this 2021, that another 2021 is being mirrored, and if it comes to pass will then be repeated...but this reality was needed to be seen so that Peter could make a different choice...


:hmm: .. actually as long as Olivia is the crowbar .. red Peter will never achieve to choose any of any universe , because she can take off the protection of the machine so any one can shoot red Peter and kill him before choosing any universe . :)

What if one of the olivia's will die ? .... no one can replace the other one i believe ...

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Re: [Official] Fringe Ep. 4.01 *Season Premiere*

Postby DarthLocke on Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:48 pm

real1 wrote:
I don't think any of us like the outcome presented in 2021---although we didn't actually see the whole reality die, just blue Olivia with an implication that it will IF PETER chooses One reality (Olivia?) over the Other ---but simultamously Peter and Walter figure out with in the construct of this 2021, that another 2021 is being mirrored, and if it comes to pass will then be repeated...but this reality was needed to be seen so that Peter could make a different choice...


:hmm: .. actually as long as Olivia is the crowbar .. red Peter will never achieve to choose any of any universe , because she can take off the protection of the machine so any one can shoot red Peter and kill him before choosing any universe . :)

What if one of the olivia's will die ? .... no one can replace the other one i believe ...

:cool:


Well we know know generally why blue Olivia is the crowbar, because the cortixifan made her telekentic...But in another timeline we don't know if that was original the case because the 2021 time period blended both that past and this possible future to a point where it gets hard to determine what pertains to the past and what pertains to the upcoming future-----(they say they made Olivia the crowbar, but we know that already happened, so it implies that some how they "planned" on her becoming the crowbar like we have seen --how did they (first people) do that??? --How did they get Walter and Bell to do cortixan trails and to create cortixifan????)

In other words we don't know yet if she still has these same abilities or can come to the same abilities with out her love for Peter?? ---In addition what if there is now another way to make other people telekentic---adults instead of just children?
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Re: [Official] Fringe Ep. 4.01 *Season Premiere*

Postby real1 on Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:41 am

DarthLocke wrote:
Well we know know generally why blue Olivia is the crowbar, because the cortixifan made her telekentic..


:hmm: .......... :) Well , I don't think it's from cortix .. " The Last Sam Wiess" .. Olivia was wanting from Walter to give her more cortix ...and Walter said to her no .... he said that her abilities are inside her without cortix .. I think that's count for something .



DarthLocke wrote: in another timeline we don't know if that was original the case because the 2021 time period blended both that past and this possible future to a point where it gets hard to determine what pertains to the past and what pertains to the upcoming future-----(they say they made Olivia the crowbar, but we know that already happened, so it implies that some how they "planned" on her becoming the crowbar like we have seen --how did they (first people) do that??? --How did they get Walter and Bell to do cortixan trails and to create cortixifan????)

In other words we don't know yet if she still has these same abilities or can come to the same abilities with out her love for Peter?? ---In addition what if there is now another way to make other people telekentic---adults instead of just children?


:hmm: ... we are not knowing yet what did remain and what did change .. the trails were in 1981 before Walter abducted red Peter ..... if the reset = every thing did happen but without red Peter in blue side .. that's mean the cortix trails did happen ... maybe that's what will let X-man try to kill Olivia after all .....

Am not worrying about Olivia's abilities .. because they are inside her with or without cortix .

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Re: [Official] Fringe Ep. 4.01 *Season Premiere*

Postby DarthLocke on Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:42 pm

real1 wrote:
DarthLocke wrote:
Well we know know generally why blue Olivia is the crowbar, because the cortixifan made her telekentic..


:hmm: .......... :) Well , I don't think it's from cortix .. " The Last Sam Wiess" .. Olivia was wanting from Walter to give her more cortix ...and Walter said to her no .... he said that her abilities are inside her without cortix .. I think that's count for something .



DarthLocke wrote: in another timeline we don't know if that was original the case because the 2021 time period blended both that past and this possible future to a point where it gets hard to determine what pertains to the past and what pertains to the upcoming future-----(they say they made Olivia the crowbar, but we know that already happened, so it implies that some how they "planned" on her becoming the crowbar like we have seen --how did they (first people) do that??? --How did they get Walter and Bell to do cortixan trails and to create cortixifan????)

In other words we don't know yet if she still has these same abilities or can come to the same abilities with out her love for Peter?? ---In addition what if there is now another way to make other people telekentic---adults instead of just children?


:hmm: ... we are not knowing yet what did remain and what did change .. the trails were in 1981 before Walter abducted red Peter ..... if the reset = every thing did happen but without red Peter in blue side .. that's mean the cortix trails did happen ... maybe that's what will let X-man try to kill Olivia after all .....

Am not worrying about Olivia's abilities .. because they are inside her with or without cortix .

:cool:


I think Sam ASKS, is she telekentic? (because that is what it would take to crowbar the machine) --we know the drug does that, every cortixifaner that made it could control matter from their minds --that is what telekenises is...but we know for fact now that at least one other timeline existed before anything we have seen (that is how the machine got there in order for our red Peter to be able to use it) So we don't know what exactly happened there, we can only make guesses, but it is also possible that the machine has been used several times and that this is also not the first reset!

We don't know much --there in theory could be BIG changes -we don't know if it only alters the time lines from the time of Peter or if it also ripples "backwards"???

IMO I would think she still participated in the trails simply because of how she calmed Walter down in this episode reminded me of the previous abilities of Nick Lane (he could control another's emotions)...But it's also possible that it could be easier or harder for Olivia to use her abilities if Peter was also the key to help her unlock them...or if he was holding her back??
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