[Official] Fringe Ep. 4.05 Discussion

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[Official] Fringe Ep. 4.05 Discussion

Postby PandaVamp on Sat Nov 05, 2011 2:16 am

"Novation"

9:00PM

Discuss the latest Fringe Episode here.




SOME THINGS ARE NOT MEANT TO BE TAMPERED WITH ON AN ALL-NEW "FRINGE" FRIDAY, OCTOBER 28, ON FOX

In the aftermath of recent shocking events, things really escalate when the translucent shapeshifters return. As the threat and circumstances intensify, a former Massive Dynamic scientist Malcolm Truss (guest star Arye Gross) enters the fold. Meanwhile, Nina Sharp pays Walter a visit in the lab in the all-new "Novation" episode of FRINGE airing Friday, Oct. 28 (9:00-10:00 PM ET/PT) on FOX. (FR-405) (TV-14 L, V)

Cast: Anna Torv as Olivia Dunham; Joshua Jackson as Peter Bishop; John Noble as Walter Bishop; Lance Reddick as Phillip Broyles; Blair Brown as Nina Sharp; Jasika Nicole as Astrid Farnsworth; Seth Gabel as Lincoln Lee

Guest Cast: Arye Gross as Malcolm Truss

Source: FOX


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Re: [Official] Fringe Ep. 4.05 Discussion

Postby Xindilini on Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:34 am

Aw! William Bell is dead already. Any guesses how he died? Or where? :hmm:

So the same time jump seen in Subject 9 is still happening to Olivia. :hmm:

That keystroke typewriter at the end was not even electric, how is it controlled by quantum entanglement?!? I thought the only use machines. Definitely old tech from the other side. :lol:

Overall. This scenario with the shapeshifters did not work for me. I know it's just the first of many dealing with the new baddies, but I would have wanted a little more than just knowing they have a design flaw and are perfect copies of the host genes. Just saying.
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Re: [Official] Fringe Ep. 4.05 Discussion

Postby NK-Metal on Sat Nov 05, 2011 3:04 pm

I enjoyed it, but I also think they need to not drag as much as they do... The Peter storyline isn't really going forward much...
Lost is the best :D I also love Game of Thrones, American Horror Story, The Walking Dead, Once Upon A Time, Dexter, Misfits, Glee, Prison Break, Fringe, Breaking Bad and others :D

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Re: [Official] Fringe Ep. 4.05 Discussion

Postby DarthLocke on Sat Nov 05, 2011 4:24 pm

Although Peter's story didn't progress far, I like the ideas presented with continuing on with the humanoid shapeshifters (Nadine Park---also a Alias and Lost reference, as Nadine is french form of Nadia. Nadia was Sydeny Bristow's half sister and "the passenger" in Alias, and in LOST Nadia was Sayid's love interest and eventual wife. There was also a french scientist on Rousseau's team named Nadine. All of which are brutally murdered. -----by Sloane, Jacob, and MIB) Nadine was brutally murdered by the shapeshifter....it will be interesting to see if the Shapeshifter will be murdered too, since she seems to choose the identity of Nadine as her default appearance...

I still believe that the shapeshifters (both sets) along with Milo Stanfield (man from "The Plateau"), represent steps in the evolution of the Observers. This episode tied back nicely to some things in season 3, specifically those things presented in "Do Shapeshifters Dream of Electric Sheep?". That episode is one of my favorites because I like how the one shapeshifter didn't want to loose his new family, how he believed he was human and really didn't want to be a soldier/spy, and how Newton became competitive towards red Olivia, showing his own hostile emotions, but also suggesting that humanity is weak and acting as though shapeshifters were a better species, better at survival of the fittest because they had no regrets (which clearly wasn't true). It plays on how we treat the things we create (Frankenstein) and how those things can get out of control, especially with out having continued compassion.

I like going about the story this way, because it throws Peter into their world and not the other way around. It emphizes on Walter's thoughts that this Peter is just a third version of his son...and Peter is a stranger here.

Back to the type writer, which was a niffty shade of green, I am not sure If it's still going to be Walternate (or his own) receiving messages on the other side. It's true Olivia asked the other Olivia about the new shapeshifters, accusing Walternate of making new ones, but I think the plot would be much better if he isn't the ring leader on this and if either the old shapeshifters chose to evolve on their own, or if we are dealing with corrupt criminals again (terrorists) like ZFT....

Another possibility is Nina Sharp. I don't think they told us how this William Bell died, but it's clear that Walter is not in charge of MD, and because Peter wasn't there, I have to imagine the events in the season 2 finale ("Over There" Pt 1 & 2) leading into season 3 are different....It could be that Nina lied about what was in the will and took over MD of her own accord....she's a little too interested in Peter IMO, considering how much this blue Walter hates her, and I generally trust Walter's skpetesims.

I can now kind of see what the Lincoln Lees represent...Benevolence! (goodwill, balance, and restoration) He wouldn't go eat with blue Olivia, because he disproves of her not trying harder to help Peter and let him connect with Walter. I think it's clear thinking about both previous red and blue Lee's that they are the characters who are there to help balance things out and restore order and reminds others what is really important. Red Lee often served in the role of Peter Bishop over there and was apart of one the most important moments in red Olivia's life, and blue Lee helped Peter with a women who wasn't able to be able to go where she belonged with her family (Dana Gray "Stowaway") ---But Dana had to save those people on the train before she could leave and so it stands to reason Peter has some task he must do in order to get back to where he belongs, with his family--his Walter and his Olivia...

--------------------------

There have been a bit of BSG/Caprica references From Paula Malcomson's guest stint in "Stowaway" who's name Dana Gray fits with in her Caprica character's name, Amanda Graystone (and I think Stowaway storyline parallel's Peter's here), the opera house in "The Day We Died", terrorists wanting to achieve apotheosis (End of Dayers/ZFT = Soldiers of the One), BSG board game appears in "Subject 13", and then if I would be right about the shapeshifters representing an evolutionary step of the Observers, then perhaps Nadia Park is also nod to Grace Park's characters in BSG's---->#8 cylons (8 = 8 ball -->concentrate and ask again, and 8 can be turned to it's side to appear as infinity symbol -which I believe that Hera was a continued progression of Zoe's pursuits, which were to have her family love her and chose her over war, revenge, and politics)

The 8's were unique because any one of them at any time could "stray" from the collective thoughts of the 8's...Boomer was a sleeper agent and turned against those she thought she loved and Athena leaves the other 8's behind to be with Carl and Hera --she spends the whole series proving her loyalty to humanity. Perhaps this character will try to be heroic in the end, or will turn on her makers and start a big war?
Last edited by DarthLocke on Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:50 pm, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: [Official] Fringe Ep. 4.05 Discussion

Postby WJames on Sat Nov 05, 2011 4:57 pm

I don't think that Peter will ever return to be with blue Olivia and Walter. Either these versions of them emotionally connect to him all over again and he adapts to this new universe, or he helps them...again, but this time making his final sacrifice really final (Jacksus - Lost). Or...he becomes an Observer and looses his hair. :O
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Re: [Official] Fringe Ep. 4.05 Discussion

Postby DarthLocke on Sat Nov 05, 2011 5:18 pm

WJames wrote:I don't think that Peter will ever return to be with blue Olivia and Walter. Either these versions of them emotionally connect to him all over again and he adapts to this new universe, or he helps them...again, but this time making his final sacrifice really final (Jacksus - Lost). Or...he becomes an Observer and looses his hair. :O



there was another nod to Kate Austen with the toys in the lunch box....Some of Kate's episodes were titled, "What Kate Did" and "What Kate Does", even though LOST didn't directly address this, but some characters did imply it (Desmond -See you in another life brother, and Faraday -What Ever Happened, Happened, and Mother -Life, Death, and rebirth) the flash sides ways could be interpereted as a transitional plane between corporeal timelines, could then suggest that the characters had been progressing towards an eventual life that did not include the Island and that they had lived several similar lifetimes before this (this is why they could know and see things ahead of time such as Charlei's deaths, because they had already happened and are already existed memories from in previous timelines, Danile cried because who know how many times he had tried to stop 815 from crashing)..."What Kate Did" and "What Kate Does" become interchangeable because doing and does have to do with comparative existences and what happens first. Kate always felt she was the one that was left behind, but half the time she was leaving others behind, and it was this realization that made her go back for Claire. Young Peter picked out a TOY AIRPLANE in "Subject 13" another nod to Kate....additionally "Subject 13" also featured the novel "A Winter's Tale" about a criminal named Peter, who unexpectedly fell in love with a women who dies, he bends time and space to save her life...

Winter's Tale is a 1983 novel by Mark Helprin. It takes place in a mythic New York City, markedly different than our own.

It takes place mainly near the turn of the 20th century.Peter Lake is the central character of Winter's Tale. He has been called an allegory of the Jewish Messiah[1]. He changes the world by sacrificing his life for a child.

A child of an immigrant couple denied admission at Governors Island, Peter Lake arrives in America on a miniature model ship called City of Justice. He is found and adopted by the Baymen of the Bayonne Marsh, who send him off to Manhattan when he comes of age. At Manhattan he first becomes a mechanic and then is forced to become a burglar in the gang called Short Tails, where he makes an enemy out of Pearly Soames, the chief of the gang. While Peter Lake is running away from the gang a mysterious white horse appears, saves his life and becomes his guardian.

While attempting to rob a house, Peter Lake meets Beverly Penn. They fall in love with each other. Beverly dies from consumption but never disappears from Peter's life, protecting him until the very end. His love for dying Beverly causes him to become obsessed with justice.

In yet another escape from Pearly's men, both Peter Lake and the white horse crash into the cloud wall, disappearing in it for years. When Peter Lake emerges, years later, he no longer remembers who he is and is visibly no longer of this world, seeing and hearing things that nobody else can see or hear. One night, in a dream or a vision, he is carried on a tour of all the graves of the world, observing and remembering all the dead.

In the apocalyptic chaos of burning New York, Peter Lake comes to full power, able to perform miracles. He sacrifices his life to resurrect a dead child and thus changes the world.

Peter Lake refers to himself, earlier in his life, as "Grand Central Pete".[2] In reality, there was a well-known confidence man in the late 19th century known by this name.[3]




Dana Gray in "Stowaway" also mirrors these ideas, as she couldn't die to get to where she belonged with her family---she had to save other people first.

Also if this timeline or rather set of Parallel Universes existed before his and he time traveled "back" there via loops (which are happening --"The Day we Died" and "Beyond the Fringe: Peter and the Machine"), then it explains the effect before the cause issue presented in "Subject 9" and what Olivia experienced with recieving the folder twice (or a time lapse/mini reset)...as Peter is bringing 'the future' (his existence) into the past.

Next weeks episode title also parallels him to Kate-themes and may support this idea:
Spoiler (Click to reveal/hide)
And Those We Left Behind


I believe whole heartedly he will get back those characters eventually.
Last edited by DarthLocke on Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Official] Fringe Ep. 4.05 Discussion

Postby WJames on Sat Nov 05, 2011 6:15 pm

Well, we'll see. In general terms, concerning this episode, I have to say that I expected more. Don't know what, or why I expected more, but I just did. So when the episode ended I felt disheartened in a way and I realized my interest for the show in general was declining. When I think about it, even though I hate when people say that about a tv show, I contribute the feeling to the shows slow, slow pace. It really is too slow. I know they had to take some time with bringing Peter back... but I'm losing my interest. They wasted time with intelligent fungus and stuff that really didn't grip me as a viewer this season. I feel they know where they are going with this storyline, but they are taking themselves too much time to get to the good stuff. I don't believe Fringe will get another season, nor do I believe it should.

The promo for the next episode looks promising, so we'll see what happens next. ;)
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Re: [Official] Fringe Ep. 4.05 Discussion

Postby DarthLocke on Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:11 am

Xindilini wrote:Aw! William Bell is dead already. Any guesses how he died? Or where? :hmm:

So the same time jump seen in Subject 9 is still happening to Olivia. :hmm:

That keystroke typewriter at the end was not even electric, how is it controlled by quantum entanglement?!? I thought the only use machines. Definitely old tech from the other side. :lol:

Overall. This scenario with the shapeshifters did not work for me. I know it's just the first of many dealing with the new baddies, but I would have wanted a little more than just knowing they have a design flaw and are perfect copies of the host genes. Just saying.



Yeah I am curious about Bell's death too, since Peter wasn't there to endues the events of "Over There Part 1 and 2"...it is sort of a mystery as to why blue Olivia went over there...and this might also play into Nina and Massive Dynamic since it appears William Bell didn't leave MD to Walter...or Nina is lying about the contents of the will...

I keep thinking that this set of parallel universes might have already existed prior to our set of parallel universes/time lines (or rather the universes/time lines of seasons 1-3 where Peter is from)...If that were the case, it could explain "the effect before the cause" and mini time relapse/resets, because Peter would be bringing his baggage (his history/proof of existence) with him, which could cause ripple effects backwards onto the time, especially if this set is an earlier iteration of his....It will be interesting to see if him being here could become dangerous to this/these timeline(s).
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Re: [Official] Fringe Ep. 4.05 Discussion

Postby Woongo on Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:56 am

Nice episode! Even though the Peter storyline didn't go much further, I absolutely loved all the scenes involving him. The shapeshifter case was okay and the ending left me intrigued. Hopefully something epic will come out of this. Even though I agree with WJames, they really are dragging it too much. But hell... I'm an optimist.

The promo for the next episode was just epic.
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Re: [Official] Fringe Ep. 4.05 Discussion

Postby WJames on Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:22 am

The promos always look mouthwatering! So it's a shame that the episodes don't always deliver. :|

But I'll also be an optimist and believe that the plot is going to start moving more rapidly in the next episode. Promo and that sneak peak look promising indeed.

I forgot to mention that one scene that bothered me the most in the last episode. The scene where Walter talks to Nina Sharp. It felt so unnatural and forced to me that I just couldn't buy it. The emotions looked so fake, from both actors. :unsure:
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Re: [Official] Fringe Ep. 4.05 Discussion

Postby real1 on Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:52 am

Well , it was a weak ep IMO .... :(

So Nina was a nany for Olivia and Rachelle but only Olivia's pic in Nina's office , A WEEK Peter was in the holding room and he wants Walter ... what did he said to Olivia ? or what Olivia did say to him ??????????

Olivia is facing the same event from S1 .... Well .. i think we are seeing "fake-time" since S1 !! .. but what is real i don't know .

So Observer didn't distract Walternat from finding the cure .. why Walter crossed over and stole red- Peter ? if both Walters found the cure why Walter still crossed over and stole red-Peter ? ....

The promo for the next ep is looking promising .

6/10

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Re: [Official] Fringe Ep. 4.05 Discussion

Postby DarthLocke on Sun Nov 06, 2011 3:14 pm

Woongo wrote:Nice episode! Even though the Peter storyline didn't go much further, I absolutely loved all the scenes involving him. The shapeshifter case was okay and the ending left me intrigued. Hopefully something epic will come out of this. Even though I agree with WJames, they really are dragging it too much. But hell... I'm an optimist.

The promo for the next episode was just epic.



I think we are stuck in this set of universes for a while, just as last season we had to deal with Olivia over there for like a third of the season...

I think exploring this alternate version of events is important to understanding the possible relativity of universes, or in this case, sets of universes. (roots --timeline -dna--procreation/maifestation) And this might be a way for Peter to get information he might need if he ever gets back to his reality/set of universes....There might be things that happen/happened here, that have yet to happen in our universe too...like these shapeshifters....
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Re: [Official] Fringe Ep. 4.05 Discussion

Postby JacobsMom on Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:55 pm

"Novation"

Peter the paradox! :lol: I thought this was an okay episode and tptb are starting out slowly because they have to connect Peter to this universe as the story unfolds. I liked the dilemma of Walter of whether he should accept this grown Peter as his own "sign from God". That ending scene with Peter and him was just fantastic as we think Walter has finally accepted Peter but at the last minute can't once again. Walter truly wants to believe that he has been given a second chance but his old mindset won't let him. This is part of the struggle that "this" Walter must endure to fix things and he is being his usual stubborn self, no matter what universe he's in! :lol:

The shape shifter story was good, imo. We learn how much more advanced these ones are opposed to what we saw in our universe. Even with all the advances though things still aren't perfect. We get to relive that same theme of how far does science go before things get out of control. Malcolm. the old MD scientist, learns the hard way. All these years he has been angry over what could have been with his research, blaming William Bell for stopping it in it's tracks. I found it interesting that "this" W.B. had these virtues. The quote that Malcolm uses "Some things are not ours to tamper with." which I am assuming is from "this" William Bell is actually a quote that Carla used on Walter back in our universe as Walter tells her he is going after Red Peter to save his life. I just wonder if "this" Nina is really that same type of person who we learned tried to stop Walter at the lake as before? I agree with Darth that "this" Nina may be up to something. :hmm:

One of my favorite scenes was having Peter try to get these people to trust him and then he hacks into the phones speaker system!! :lol: The look on Broyles face was just great. :D Broyles sure is a crabby guy in this universe!
I also have to agree with Darth that at least "this" Lincoln Lee has the outside advantage of trusting Peter even though he doesn't know his full story yet. Lincoln is thinking practical and doesn't care what this guy already knows!

My favorite scene though was when Walter went through his Peter's lunch box and found that coin. From sorrow to happiness all in a matter of seconds. :wub:

The quote that "Nadine" said to Malcolm had me wondering if that was said by someone else in another season???
"Great progress requires great sacrifice." It sounds like something Walternate would say but I keep wondering if it wasn't from the Jones guy or someone else?

I am thinking that the time slip is starting to occur first with Olivia because of Peter showing up in this one. If he is here then maybe the two universes are bouncing against each other and trying to come back together as one instead? That layer of separation is starting to fade away just as Peter did in our universe.

Great lines:
"I saw the eyes of my boy in a man's face. It filled me with indescribable joy." Walter
"But maybe you've just been given a second chance?" Nina
"Just like old times, sort of." Peter :lol:
"So what do luxury cars and shape shifters have in common? They both have low jacks systems apparently." Peter
"Your work created me. " Nadine :scared:
"Nobody remembers me here." Peter :(
"Everyday for the past 25 years I've tried to imagine what you'd look like as a man, my son." Walter :cry:
"BEGIN PREPARATIONS. WE"RE SENDING THE OTHERS." ???????

Cool things:
Nadine jumping off the walls in that building like Spiderman!! :thumbup:
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Re: [Official] Fringe Ep. 4.05 Discussion

Postby DarthLocke on Mon Nov 07, 2011 3:39 pm

WJames wrote:The promos always look mouthwatering! So it's a shame that the episodes don't always deliver. :|

But I'll also be an optimist and believe that the plot is going to start moving more rapidly in the next episode. Promo and that sneak peak look promising indeed.

I forgot to mention that one scene that bothered me the most in the last episode. The scene where Walter talks to Nina Sharp. It felt so unnatural and forced to me that I just couldn't buy it. The emotions looked so fake, from both actors. :unsure:



That's probably another reason why Jacobsmom and I don't feel good about Nina. It's clear this Walter completely distrusts her...so her reaching out to him like this, when suddenly there is this third adult version of a person whom in their set of universes is dead, obviously is valuable to her for some reason....

As I am sure everyone here knows I still think Nina relates or is another version of blue and red Olivia (some fans also notice that the comics "Peter and the Machine", and maybe along with Aaron in "Alone in the World" plays on the idea of "more than one incarnation of a person in a timeline" ...So it would be interesting down the road if Nina would be, considering how interested this one is in Peter's existence.
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Re: [Official] Fringe Ep. 4.05 Discussion

Postby DharmaLager on Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:30 pm

I actually don't mind the speed - for some strange reason I don't understand - I'm enjoying the slow emergence of Peter. I actually thought we wouldn't see Peter until a few more episodes in, so that's probably why. Loved the shape-shifters story, however, as it's one of my favorite set of characters on the show.
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