Theory: This Time Has Been Here The Whole Time

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Theory: This Time Has Been Here The Whole Time

Postby DarthLocke on Sat Nov 19, 2011 2:43 am

We have come to learn that in some way this set of ajoined parallel universes is separate from the ones we came to know in the first 3 seasons. However, after a thorough examination of events, It only makes sense to me that this/these universe(s) existed before ours and we were introduced to it in season 1.

Walter explained that he and William Bell believed that drugs (LSD) could highten one's awareness...an awareness to the knowledge of other universes. Walter calls that sense, "Deja Vu." This is what they believed cortexifan could also do...

There Is More Than One Of Everything Transcript:

WALTER: When Belly and I were younger men, we regularly ingested large quantities of L.S.D.
PETER: You don't say?
WALTER: We became convinced what we saw while on the drug was real. We believed that we were catching glimpses of another reality, another world just like ours but slightly different, populated by slightly different versions of ourselves. We all experience it momentarily as deja vu. And Belly and I could prolong it with hallucinogenics. But the question of course was -- how to get there without LSD. Belly, as you know, theorized that young children have the capacity to see these other worlds naturally.


In many of season 1's episodes we saw Olivia glimpse another universe. One episode that really stands out is "The Road Not Taken", where the reality glimpse or slips allows Olivia to figure out what was happening to Nancy Lewis and her twin sister Susan Prat.

Many assume that those glimpses into that reality are continuity errors since the FRINGE building and office is nearly identical to her current Agent Broyles, as we come to see that the FRINGE Division in the red universe is much different than this portrayal.

However, what if to remedy this error, or the writers did plan ahead, if that universe Olivia experienced is the universe Peter currently finds himself in?????????

"White Tulip" may also support this idea....
Alistair Peck was able to reset himself in time and create mini iterations (new branch offs/loops) of his reality. In his second go around Olivia comments about "Deja Vu."

White Tulip Transcript

PETER: What?
OLIVIA: Wow, I'm having déjà vu.
PETER: Yeah, I read that déjà vu is fate's way of telling you that you're exactly where you're supposed to be. That's why you feel like you've been there before. You are right in line with you're own destiny.


In this instance the resets all stem from the blue universe. Blue Olivia then senses that another [blue] version of herself has already done this. (But not with out some variation)

Taking this Further: A Look at "LSD"!
In "LSD" Peter and Walter must go into Olivia's mind to try and find her in order to get William Bell out of her body. Like "Brown Betty", I get the feeling that there is double meaning to some of the things the characters experience. When Peter finally goes to Jacksonville, he is tested to prove his loyalty to Olivia. There are two Olivias, a child and an adult version. He sees past the adult version and knows that the 3 year girl is his Olivia. This obviously mirrors Peter's former unawareness that he was with the red Olivia, who pretended to take on the identity of blue Olivia.

There is also a scene on the Zepplin where a mysterious man appears, in which some refer to as "Mr. X" due to his "X" black and white T-shirt...he pushes Walter out of Zepplin to his death at Reden Lake, but the biggest kicker is that once Olivia is back and William Bell seems to have disappeared, Peter asks her who is/was "Mr. X"? --Olivia responds, "The man that's going to kill me!"

FRINGE kicked off season 4 with a new digital comic series Beyond the Fringe: "Peter and the Machine pt. 1" . This is a cannon piece that extends the 2026 timeline in which Peter (it actually turns out Peter views another Peter's experience--"Peter and the Machine pt. 3") travels with the machine through the black whole in central park back in time. The twist is that Peter has to dismantle the machine and leave parts behind in various time periods! When he reaches Greece in 357B.C.E. he sees a possible other incarnation of a pregnant blonde Olivia in a pool before a statue of the God Dionysis....Suddenly a serpent comes straight at her and Peter quickly takes his sword and slays the serpent dead. She is mad at him and tells him he had no right to interfere with her destiny!!!

Thinking back to Mr. X, I wonder if he is from this previous universe (Olivia's mind back-shadowed a previous version of herself) and like the comic, Peter is there to save this Olivia's life from him, and that this "variable" (the "X" could represent a variable) is key in saving his universe(s) and being able to find a place to exist, a way to balance things out....Of course I also think if Peter returns to his reality of origin that some of the things he experienced "here" might reserface "there". Things like the human shapeshifters and Mr. X!
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Re: Theory: This Time Has Been Here The Whole Time

Postby JacobsMom on Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:44 am

I agree with what you're saying here Darth because from what we are seeing this season so far, it seems that Peter had to be brought here for a reason. Like I replied to your post on the Wallflower episode page, I think some of these events are overlapping between universes. Whatever Our Walter from the blue universe did, also affected this universe too as well as the red one.

I don't agree with your example from White Tulip though about de ja vu. I think that scene at Peck's apartment was for us the viewers to realize that this exact moment had already happened before for Olivia, Walter, Peter and the FBI crew. It could have been a way to show us that these moments kept repeating over and over as Peck tried to go back in time even further. I think it was only directed at this universe and not another one.

I'm also wondering if Peter has to let this Olivia be killed by Mr. X in the amber universe and not save her? If she is suppose to be killed by Mr. X as we heard her say last season, then I think it will be an event from this universe that was suppose to happen all along. This amber Nina may also have a role in her death as well. I am thinking this event just got mixed up with the blue universe instead and Peter will get to see it happen because of what he is doing over here right now. I think he is meant to actually separate the universes somehow and hopefully get returned home to our blue universe with a nice happy ending! Wishful thinking on my part of course. :D
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Re: Theory: This Time Has Been Here The Whole Time

Postby DarthLocke on Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:55 am

JacobsMom wrote:I agree with what you're saying here Darth because from what we are seeing this season so far, it seems that Peter had to be brought here for a reason. Like I replied to your post on the Wallflower episode page, I think some of these events are overlapping between universes. Whatever Our Walter from the blue universe did, also affected this universe too as well as the red one.

I don't agree with your example from White Tulip though about de ja vu. I think that scene at Peck's apartment was for us the viewers to realize that this exact moment had already happened before for Olivia, Walter, Peter and the FBI crew. It could have been a way to show us that these moments kept repeating over and over as Peck tried to go back in time even further. I think it was only directed at this universe and not another one.



You're actually saying the same thing as I---things are repeating over and over, but Olivia is aware of it. Perhaps being aware of herself completely is a stretch, but it's also not like in "The Same Old Story" she didn't imagine/astral project herself having an accellerated growth baby, which comes to mirror red Olivia's future. So I do think she is 'connected' to many versions of herself via cortexifan. But I only used "white tulip" because the iterations where all 'blue', which is why I think she is linked to the viewers new blue (you refer to Amber) Olivia (which I believe is a past blue Olivia). It's more likely she would be more alike other blue versions of herself, rather than the red...6B offers quantum entanglement out of love, but imagine if all the blue Olivia's, however they come to exist can connect to each other because the cortexifan acts like 'a ghost network' of their incarnated souls...because every variation is coming from the creation of the previous existence and so they all share their parent timelines' DNA/Roots --"Be Better Than Your Father."

I think LSD both forshaddows and backshadows everything we are seeing and seen, because all of the Olivia's are related, because we know each set of timelines are made from the black hole in Central Park @ 2026 -and Peter(s) keep dismantling the machine parts ("Peter and the Machine pt1-3) but the abilities to sense other iterations of their previous existences come from the blue's since they are cortixifaners....

I do believe Peter is networking, he is rearranging/altering the past, so that he can change, and BE PREPAIRED for the future of his timelines. I too think he is suppose to go home. :)
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Re: Theory: This Time Has Been Here The Whole Time

Postby JacobsMom on Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:57 am

I'm not sure if I can accept the idea that this Olivia we are seeing now this season could be a past Blue Universe Olivia as you suggest. Would this Walter and Astrid also be a past Blue Universe too? I see this Olivia as a sort of remake of what role Peter played in Our Universe before. The events of this universe made her who she is this time around just as Red Olivia turned out in her universe. Different circumstances give a different personality or person.

I guess I was using Amber as the color since that is what we see in the intro now for Fringe. For some reason, I think this Amber Universe is needed to help fix whatever is going on with our Blue and their Red universe and that is why Peter is here now. The Observer, December, wanted to erase Peter from this universe but I think September knew Peter was needed here to fix all the universes after Walter's mistake of messing with crossing over to get Peter.
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Re: Theory: This Time Has Been Here The Whole Time

Postby DarthLocke on Wed Nov 23, 2011 2:44 pm

JacobsMom wrote:I'm not sure if I can accept the idea that this Olivia we are seeing now this season could be a past Blue Universe Olivia as you suggest. Would this Walter and Astrid also be a past Blue Universe too? I see this Olivia as a sort of remake of what role Peter played in Our Universe before. The events of this universe made her who she is this time around just as Red Olivia turned out in her universe. Different circumstances give a different personality or person.

I guess I was using Amber as the color since that is what we see in the intro now for Fringe. For some reason, I think this Amber Universe is needed to help fix whatever is going on with our Blue and their Red universe and that is why Peter is here now. The Observer, December, wanted to erase Peter from this universe but I think September knew Peter was needed here to fix all the universes after Walter's mistake of messing with crossing over to get Peter.



I agree "amber" -and Green titles are a about helping, but from a physics stand point If you have all of these loops, you have several iterations (variations) of what ever the original was....(if you add vast amounts YELLOW to red and blue you could get orange and green. I always speculated that Violet Sedan Chair was a nod to the machines and ultra violet light. In sci-fi ultra violet light sometimes is shown in 'electric' purple, yellow, and white colors)

In 2026 that blue Walter explains that we can't change the past by simply "not building the machine'...that it's too far gone for that. So the only other IMO would be to find an iteration (variation) that is very relative in some way....(So if this would be the timeline Olivia occationally sees/remembers, and since Peter has shared conscience with her, might be another reason why the machine found a way to bring him here, because it's important to her).

So if our set is say (just to get an idea, because it's probably further apart than this) iteration 100, then this iteration WAS 90 (or something like that), but ultimately Peter has come here to ALTER it with his existence. (So upon Peter's arrival it's no longer iteration 90-(A)...it might now be considered iteration 90-B...(This is how Olivia would know about Mr. X and could explain the universe she saw in "The Road Not Taken" (<--because it is not any version of the red universe, it relates to another version of her specific case: Nancy Lewis and Susan Prat.), because she might have 'memory' of her previous existences in her head---Like Desmond seeing all the ways Charlie had died on LOST -->memory transference)

Note: Battlestar Galactica is also something that has been referenced a few times in the show. The [reimaged] series most famous tagline is: "It happened before, it will happen again....and again..."

One of our episode titles last season was, "Reciprocity" ---Reciprocity is about tit for tat social and physical exchanges and/or dynamics....the idea of trying to BALANCE something out. In J.J. Abrams' Star Trek Nero's planet is destroyed in the original time line (Really it's timeline Prime-A, because there is a mirror universe apart of all previous Star Trek series), but when he and Spock go through the worm hole and create a new timeline by folding back to the time of the original series, Nero eventually destroys Vulcan's planet (one planet in one time line for another planet in another, both relating to the existence of Romulans (Nero) and Vulcans (Spock) who happen share a speci origin)....J.J. explains in his commentary that THIS exchange is reciprocity in the Star Trek Universes and that it was meant to explain "fate" between universes relates to the physical dynamics of universes balancing out new existences.

NOTE: "Peter and Machine Pt 3": Cover is Statue of an Observer holding a sword and a SCALE! -He appears as a man of the court, a man of JUSTICE! (Peter saved THE LIFE of another version of a pregnant Olivia, a 357 BCE Greek Olivia, from a snake by slaying it with his sword in pt 1.)http://www.comixology.com/digital/17021/Beyond-the-Fringe-3-Chapter-A

IMO that is what Peter is trying to do ("Peter and Machine" go through his struggles of the death of Olivias--all the blue ones he has lost over and over and over again...) If he can change "something here", then he can change "Something there" (Ex: Getting closer to Walternate, Saving Olivia's life, stopping MD from becomming out of control, and to gain NEW information, ect)


So even if we disagree with the "how and when" this time exists, I think you and both agree on the reasons why, and really that's the most important part. :)
'

I came back because I had one more parallel to add to this. Olivia in "Jacksonville" was able to reconnect with her 3 year old self in a dream state. Proving in one instance she can connect BACK to herself. It is then Ironic that the predetermination of "LSD" should not only give us the elusive Mr. X, but also that "Peter's Olivia" is disguised as her 3 year old self (Choosing to be an image of the past).
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Yet for all their evolution, they form no bonds.
Love does not exist for them. They are incapable of dreaming,
Of contemplating beauty, Of knowing something greater than themselves.
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