[Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

[PandaVamp]

"FRINGE SEASON 4"

Fridays, 9:00PM

Discuss Fringe's 4.11 to the Season Finale Episode Here.

Cast: Anna Torv as Olivia Dunham; Joshua Jackson as Peter Bishop; John Noble as Walter Bishop; Lance Reddick as Phillip Broyles; Blair Brown as Nina Sharp; Jasika Nicole as Astrid Farnsworth; Seth Gabel as Lincoln Lee

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[DarthLocke]

4x11 "Making Angels"

I found the episode really intriguing! It was a wonderful performance from Jasika Nichole and I am glad she had an episode to shine in!

A lot of the episode goes back to the 2026 timeline. It's there we find out Astrid's/Astrids' father(s) is/are Ministers and the whole time period of that timeline gives into the pursuit of Religious beliefs, as the scientific-religious -terrorists: The End of Dayers, use advance flash bombs to attempt to make black holes that lead to the past of the timeline. The 2026 [blue] Astrid said, "God helps those who help themselves", meaning it's up to humanity to save themselves.

In this timeline [red] Astrid comes to meet her counter part out of despair and regret of the loss of her father. The whole aspect of death plagues itself through the episode, as an Asian man named Neil, (is able to see the future and attempts to put those who are going to die soon in severe states of death out of their misery before it happens. The [red] Astrid figures out that his ability for him is about God, Heaven, and Divinity...It leads [blue] Olivia to the same conclusion. Neil's wall at his house pegs himself as a "savior"...

But the episode also reflected [blue] Walter. He isn't really helping Peter get home. He keeps taking breaks and gets mad at Peter when he starts using his things. [Red} Olivia is the one who probably points out the truth of the matter, that Walter's anger stems from love--that maybe he actually missed her. --[Red] Astrid too tries to make him aware that Walter might benifit if he would just try to embrace Peter as his son, but clearly Walter seems to not be able to that. --But maybe Walter doesn't want to help Peter with the machine, because he doesn't want Peter to leave.

I also have to argue that Peter too is somewhat distant. He helps, but he doesn't seem emotionally caught up in their lives, as I think he too is focusing on going home and hasn't made the connections yet. (Of course the audience is waiting for the official connection too!)

But the past two episodes have really played up on the future, death, and fate --and lightly give us nods back to Peter, as both Emily ("Forced Perspective") and Chet had lived in Lake Houses, like Walter and Peter, and both ACT OUT TO HELP OTHERS and then allow themselves to die. (Note: "Subject 13" Reference: "The Winter's Tale" main character named Peter Lake). --But all of this still brings me back to "LSD" and the idea that Mr. X pushes Walter our of the Zeppelin over Reden Lake and may be a metaphor/foreshadowing for some Walters' death. And so now I'm worried about these Walters....

I keep coming back to the idea that there are weird variable exchanges occurring and if Peter is actually the cause of some of these people being able to have ability to be able to see the future and choose to take a somewhat existential philosophy to the timeline and if that matters? It's curious that September would have a piece of technology that allows him to tap into the immediate future of the time line and that he lost it apparently in this timeline's 1985! -Again though the tech is similar looking to the tech The End of Dayers use in the 2026 timeline, and may again support that the Observers are made by man in the future of some other already existing timeline, as they too parallel the concept of "a savior" (or Angels), which leads me again to think that their existence might actually be the problem of extremely repeated fate...September really likes to make mistakes!

All of this is most likely leading up to Jones and somewhere near him, if not him, Mr. X resides.

[JacobsMom]

"Making Angels"

The best part of this whole episode for me was seeing the interaction between everyone at Walter's lab. Looking back at this Walter from the very first episode, it is amazing how much farther he has grown from that scared man in the lab. Once again we see how other people are helping him get better. First, it is Red Astrid with her amazing skills and direct comments. I had to laugh at the red curls in her hair too for emphasis! Second, Walter is confronted by the person he assumes is evil and calls Mata Hari....Red Olivia. She is so carefree and fun that Walter can't resist her even though he claims he still doesn't trust her. She definitely wins him over by the end as he gives her a Red Vine which he treasures. I also have to agree with DarthLocke that Walter has also grown fond of this Peter and even though he seems to berate him at every turn, Walter probably only wants Peter to stay and be the son he never got to have. Red Astrid put it all in words that Walter can never say out loud to himself. I think he is trying to not help Peter because he doesn't want him to leave this universe.

The scenes between the two Astrids were really good, imo. I liked the scenes even more than everything we have seen between the Olivia's. There was this sort of innocence portrayed between their characters that linked them together. Instead of distrust and anger, we see Astrid immediately connect with Red Astrid even though they have different mental abilities/capabilities. It was so wonderful at the end to see that Astrid knew exactly what Red Astrid needed to hear and so she lied about her real relationship with her father. She wanted to give Red Astrid some hope to survive the loss of her father who wasn't the same man that Astrid's father is in this universe. She could see how frail Red Astrid is and wanted to protect her.

The episode was centered on the idea of destiny using Neil, the killer, having this ability to see these peoples unfortunate futures. He believed that this gift he received from his studies and in his mind from God, was given to him because of what happened to his own family long ago. It was similar to the character Milo who actually used his abilities to kill people that he thought hurt him through the drug trials. But Neil believed he was doing good and would go to heaven for this and become that special angel. He was really just playing God and not letting these people determine their own futures either. I still think that he did see the "events" fold out just as the girl did from last week's episode but maybe Neil wasn't taking into account all the variables that could happen just as we have heard the Observers mention to Walter in our time. Neil wasn't seeing the variables, but was only seeing this one set future in his mind. I think that was evident in the woman's case as she was trying to stop drinking at the point he shows up to talk to her. She was hoping to control her destiny until this man showed up.

I'm curious who this new Observer is and what month he is suppose to be! He seems to be fixing all the things that September had done wrong and we learn that September is still around somewhere and supposedly not dead yet! I am assuming that it will also be his job to take care of Peter too since September failed to do so.

Favorite scene:
When Astrid says goodbye to Red Astrid

Good lines:
"Kirk out." Walter
"I think I love her." Walter about Red Astrid
"Dr. Bishop, your Astrid is summoning you." Red Astrid
"A painless exit from a living nightmare." Neil
"God gave me a way to see the future." Neil

Cool Stuff:
The park bench reads ...Life's better in the sun...Paradise is closer than you think...plan your death
The new Observer going in and out of the glass window
Red Olivia's innocent box of mints!
Astrid's Dads apron...**** happens

[Xindilini]

A lot of the episode goes back to the 2026 timeline. It's there we find out Astrid's/Astrids' father(s) is/are Ministers and the whole time period of that timeline gives into the pursuit of Religious beliefs, as the scientific-religious -terrorists: The End of Dayers, use advance flash bombs to attempt to make black holes that lead to the past of the timeline. The 2026 [blue] Astrid said, "God helps those who help themselves", meaning it's up to humanity to save themselves.

This quote from The Day We Died came to my mind.
"When the world dies and a savior arrives to end the suffering and usher all the worthy into Heaven."

All of this is most likely leading up to Jones and somewhere near him, if not him, Mr. X resides.

About that. Could Mr. X even be a shapeshifter?

[DarthLocke]

A lot of the episode goes back to the 2026 timeline. It's there we find out Astrid's/Astrids' father(s) is/are Ministers and the whole time period of that timeline gives into the pursuit of Religious beliefs, as the scientific-religious -terrorists: The End of Dayers, use advance flash bombs to attempt to make black holes that lead to the past of the timeline. The 2026 [blue] Astrid said, "God helps those who help themselves", meaning it's up to humanity to save themselves.

This quote from The Day We Died came to my mind.
"When the world dies and a savior arrives to end the suffering and usher all the worthy into Heaven."

All of this is most likely leading up to Jones and somewhere near him, if not him, Mr. X resides.

About that. Could Mr. X even be a shapeshifter?

That was a thought I had a few episodes back too! And thanks for that quote from "The Day We Died". It's another important one! --On "The Symbol of Mr. X" thread I am pretty sure that in every time line Mr. X is a leader of a pattern related terrorist group (Walternater -The End of Dayers - 2026 timeline). And since these shapeshifter seem to be at the helm of Jones' plan, who knows what could happen and who the leader could become or really is!??????

This was my latest post explaining Mr. X...

So a little more to support the theory that "Mr. X" in most timelines is usually the head of some pattern-related terrorist organization, who tries to create black holes as a means to prove apotheosis. (Life extension - a type of immortality, time/reality travel).

Issue 4, Chapter A of the next "Beyond the Fringe" comic series came out at the end of last week. It's another alternate universe (so not directly canon), but is a spoof of comic book Super Heroes, particularly paralleling Batman, as this Peter is a billion-doller-play-boy Super Hero named "The Pattern" (He has a Robin,Batman's sidekick, stylized "P" on his chest) as the comic is titled, "Adventures of the Pattern".

We are introduced to a villain who has escaped from St. Clare's Mental Institution, named "Mr. ZFT", who had previously stole a special coil from Walter and Peter's lab called "The Pelican Coil" (A nod to Alcatraz perhaps since Alcatraz translates from it's Spanish origins as, "Pelican Island"), in which Mr. ZFT can blow holes in the universe!

As stated in a previous post, Supermodel called to my attention that Walternate kills [blue] Olivia in the 2026 timeline in which he had become the leader of the terrorist group, The End of Dayers....it was easy to parallel that group to the season 1-3 timline's ZFT, which is sort of showing it's head in the season 4 timeline, as we again are following the pursuits of Jones as he is attempting to blow holes in the universe!

The comic is also about Peter saving a hostage taken from St. Clare's, a staff member named Olivia Dunham ...Peter's abilities stem from Cortexifan...and he finds out his hostage has the ability too! The comic features Peter's special power which us to create amber substance from his finger tips to close the soft spots! -The end of the comic ends with Olivia also becoming a super hero! --It will be interesting if "Adventures of the Pattern" carry on in the next chapter or in another issue...

[WJames]

Great episode. Jasika was brilliant as both Astrids. That red Astrid made me all ... It's fascinating how much more enjoyable are COTW's when they have subtle connections with the main plot, in this case with the observers. What were they thinking in the beginning with that sentient fungi?! Anyhow, the current dynamics between the characters also contribute greatly to my enjoyment and I hope that this will continue.

9/10

[DarthLocke]

3x12 Welcome to Alcatraz Westfield

I thought this episode was great! --Once again the writers tied back to so many episodes, but yet kept the immediate story moving forward!

It related briefly to the obvious "Johari Window"with the events being constricted to a town, but also since this Olivia is now remembering our Olivia's memories and! That connects us to begging of Season 3 with episodes, "Olivia", "The Plateau", "Amber 31422", ect, where our Olivia is contorted about her memories of herself, as she had been injected with a memory serim of the other red Olivia's memories on behalf of Brandonate and Walternate....

The episode also then ties to "Jacksonville"! --Newton was attempting to find a way to cross over by exchanging physical structures such as buildings, which results in some rather similar disturbing convergences. --But it might eventually tie in other ways. It's "Jacksonville" also where Olivia goes back to the day care center to go inside her mind in order to try and activate a specific ability she use to have via cortixifan...being able to see glimmers...

The last Chapter so far in "Beyond the Fringe Comic Series" is set in an alternate universe where Peter is a super hero called "The Pattern", and also referred to as The Cortexifan Crusader! ---The character gives himself CORTIXIFAN BOOSTER SHOTS to help him fight against "Mr. ZFT" (Alluding to Mr. X). ---Because this time line is the same and different and I see Nina in the role of our timeline's Walternate,I propose that Nina Sharp has been giving this Olivia cortexifan booster shots, and that something about Peter being "here" is causing ripple effects forwards and backwards, as really Peter is from a future iteration of the time line...this Walter did try to explain this during Peter's arrival in "Subject 9" ...which also deals with magnetized objects and the magnetic field distortion...

ASTRID: (stands near Walter as he reviews the video footage from the encounter in the apartment bathroom) So you're saying that your equipment recorded the event before it occurred? How is that even possible?
WALTER: Whatever it is, it seemed somehow to affect time.
OLIVIA: (as he freezes the footage and studies the image) What are you thinking, Walter?
WALTER: I'm not sure it caused a time effect before.
ASTRID: Before? I thought you said you'd never seen anything like this?
WALTER: Exactly like this, no, but something similar. Twenty-five years ago, when Belly and I did the Cortexiphan trials, there was a boy who displayed the beginnings of an ability for astral projection.
OLIVIA: Astral projection?
WALTER: The ability to travel outside the physical body. And the matter-to-energy transformation had similar results. That would explain the radiation levels in Olivia's apartment. But the ability came with a harmful side effect. Every time he astral projected, he would create a distortion in the magnetic field and attract metal objects to him

OLIVIA: In time?
WALTER: (gaining confidence) Yes. What we consider to be linear time. Now, that would explain the video in the lab. I witnessed effect before cause. If Cameron's reflexive magnetic discharge dispersed the energy event, then this thing, whatever it is, does not create magnetic fields. It – it -- it distorts those that already exist around us, focusing them, maybe tearing them open...

And then they make a point that Peter may have been the reason why Raymond Green could use Kate's equation to create time displacement in "And Those We Left Behind"...

PETER: No. Not exactly. I think this has something to do with time displacement. And I think that, when I came back here, I somehow damaged the space-time continuum. And, if that's the case, there may not actually be any rules to it. (starts writing equations on the board)
OLIVIA: Like the apartment. The fire and the baby. The mother didn't revert to a younger age, but her daughter did.
PETER: Yeah. Precisely. I can't explain it yet, but, as far as I can tell, these anomalies are just gonna keep on increasing exponentially. I mean, if we can judge anything by the damage done by that fire in the apartment, these things are just gonna keep on getting worse.

IMO everything is accelerating at a quicker rate than it originally did, because of Peter. It might also be possible though that "new" things can emerge from his presence...like the time distortions, but also perhaps Jone's work...

The cool thing was that the episode tied to the bigger story line with Jones! I too kept thinking what benefet would Jones have in using this technology to attempt to converge the parallel universes? --I was wondering if at the end of the process, if a leveled Westfield would act as a physical bride (Thinking of Newton again and "The Man From the Other Side")???? Other than that I can't see what the point of the experiment would be...only convergence or divergence seems like the only answer, but still to what method would those things be applied to????

I still believe Peter is filling in a role and he has to go home and help this Olivia somehow, especially since her identity is changing...Of course it would be very tempting if one could just "switch" the blue Olivias...

The episode also made me think of some things I have dancing around with in "Alcatraz"...even though what happened wasn't a casualty loop in the physical sense, because the effect are the results of something different in switching memories with current dopplegangers, it still is like a casualty loop any way since the def of CL is event a lead to event b, event b leads to event c, and event c leads to event a over and over (Like the loops of the universes-"The Day We Died", and like the small resets of A. Peck in "White Tulip") It makes me think that even their relationship (the parallel universes) may also derive from one loop, but then they both started doing it together (mitosis of the universes)....and it makes me wonder about parallel universes in Alcatraz...

[JacobsMom]

"Welcome to Westfield"

This was just an "okay" episode imo. I almost got the feeling that tptb were trying to make the viewers somehow believe that these characters are now "becoming" the blue universe people. Olivia seems to be uploading all these "blue Olivia" memories to share and Walter has almost transformed into a very similar "blue Walter" to some extent with his new found confidence being supplied by Peter's presence. We even have the eerie absence of Lincoln Lee, who was never a part of the team in our universe.

Maybe this is all due to what I want to call "the Peter effect". His presence has been received well by all and I keep wondering if this is exactly what Nina wants which is to not let Peter leave this universe at all. I still think that this is a separate universe that Peter needed to visit for guidance and possibly to save these doubles from Jones and Nina(??) and then he'll be able to return back home from Oz!

I got a kick out of the Wizard of Oz references in the lab scene with Walter, Peter and Olivia. One thing I love about this show is all the fun bits thrown into the dialogue.

The COTW was all centered on Jones ability to use his new found mineral and use it to do a little experimentation. It did take a while to figure out what the heck was going on since I had thoughts of shape shifters with the man in the diner. I loved the part where Olivia tries to drive them out of the town and they keep coming back over and over.

One thing Our Walter would never do is carry a gun. Once I heard him say he'd take one, I figured this Walter is definitely different. I had to laugh how the pepper spray worked out later on the school bus with the double faced man! I guess this guy had that same problem that we saw in an earlier episode with the two doubles merging bodies!

I thought we got a couple of quick moments from both LOST and The Walking Dead. First we see the plane crashing as it gets "dragged" down to earth and then we see a sort of "zombie" man walking in the streets carrying that bloody doll.

One scene that really caught my attention was when Cliff, the injured man, and Olivia sit in the bathroom looking at the woman who just killed herself. He explains how he wasn't even suppose to be here still with his family and could have taken that job in Philly. When Olivia tells him that maybe his true destiny was suppose to be staying here and helping these people survive, I thought immediately of Peter. Peter just shows up here in this universe where he believes he shouldn't even be, and then things begin to happen where he "helps" everyone, especially Walter.

Favorite Scene:
Walter and Peter working together to find the "eye of the storm" and save everyone.

Fun Stuff:
Walter's breakfast martini!
Going to town for rhubarb pie!
Walter playing teacher and calling Peter and Olivia on the school's speaker system!
Walter making "brinner" for Peter....breakfast for dinner (Seinfield!!!)

[DarthLocke]

"Welcome to Westfield"

This was just an "okay" episode imo. I almost got the feeling that tptb were trying to make the viewers somehow believe that these characters are now "becoming" the blue universe people. Olivia seems to be uploading all these "blue Olivia" memories to share and Walter has almost transformed into a very similar "blue Walter" to some extent with his new found confidence being supplied by Peter's presence. We even have the eerie absence of Lincoln Lee, who was never a part of the team in our universe.

Maybe this is all due to what I want to call "the Peter effect". His presence has been received well by all and I keep wondering if this is exactly what Nina wants which is to not let Peter leave this universe at all. I still think that this is a separate universe that Peter needed to visit for guidance and possibly to save these doubles from Jones and Nina(??) and then he'll be able to return back home from Oz!

I got a kick out of the Wizard of Oz references in the lab scene with Walter, Peter and Olivia. One thing I love about this show is all the fun bits thrown into the dialogue.

The COTW was all centered on Jones ability to use his new found mineral and use it to do a little experimentation. It did take a while to figure out what the heck was going on since I had thoughts of shape shifters with the man in the diner. I loved the part where Olivia tries to drive them out of the town and they keep coming back over and over.

One thing Our Walter would never do is carry a gun. Once I heard him say he'd take one, I figured this Walter is definitely different. I had to laugh how the pepper spray worked out later on the school bus with the double faced man! I guess this guy had that same problem that we saw in an earlier episode with the two doubles merging!

I thought we got a couple of quick moments from both LOST and The Walking Dead. First we see the plane crashing as it gets "dragged" down to earth and then we see a sort of "zombie" man walking in the streets carrying that bloody doll.

I love all the wizard of oz references too! In The Somewhere Over The Rainbow Thread I joked that Peter's journey might take him to 'the wizards of Osmium'

The Plane Crash was a cool reference back to LOST! I totally forgot about it until you reminded me!

It also occurred to me a little earlier today that it's interesting that during the beginning of season 3 when blue Olivia was given the memories of Red Olivia how an astral projected Peter appeared to help blue Olivia go home...In this timeline the machines are somehow already turned on. --When ours where turned on by Walternate using Henry's modified DNA, Peter could not get into the machine. He needed his "crowbar"...So for whatever reasons this is happening to this Olivia (which I believe in the microcosmic deals with cortexifan booster shots via Nina Sharp), I think it's temporary, like with the Astral Peter and that this how Peter is going to be able to get inside these machines!

[WJames]

One of the best episodes of the season. Actually, last four were so freaking amazing that I fear for what is to come.

First 15 minutes I thought I was watching Peter, Walter and Olivia guest starring in Lost. The plane crash, electromagnetism, not being able to leave, weird people killing other people... When Walter said that he had seen this before, I really expected him to say Lost but it was Brigadoon "a magical town in the forest that no one can leave"!

I'm still not willing to go "all in" on the Peter is where he belongs and he won't and can't go back to a destroyed universe, but my hand is itchy to do it. Anyway, no matter what happens, I'm just going to enjoy the ride till the end. And I changed my mind about season 5, now I crave it badly so it probably won't happen.

10/10

[DarthLocke]

One of the best episodes of the season. Actually, last four were so freaking amazing that I fear for what is to come.

First 15 minutes I thought I was watching Peter, Walter and Olivia guest starring in Lost. The plane crash, electromagnetism, not being able to leave, weird people killing other people... When Walter said that he had seen this before, I really expected him to say Lost but it was Brigadoon "a magical town in the forest that no one can leave"!

I'm still not willing to go "all in" on the Peter is where he belongs and he won't and can't go back to a destroyed universe, but my hand is itchy to do it. Anyway, no matter what happens, I'm just going to enjoy the ride till the end. And I changed my mind about season 5, now I crave it badly so it probably won't happen.

10/10

I thought it was one of the best ones too! --Even though I would feel cheated by a emotional convergence of time lines as a final say so, I can't deny the possibility. I still hope Peter can go home, that there is a home to go to, and that maybe what's happening with this Olivia is his ticket. But whatever happens I'm enjoying the season too. I can't imagine not being able to have one more season...

It's funny Walter said "Brigadoon", because in Alcatraz this past week, one account of what happened from a former gaurd, Guy Hastings, said there was "a fog" that came over the whole Island...and there were some other things that seem like it mildly relates Alcatraz too, as the conscience switching of dopplegangers is similar to 'the lost memory' aspect of Cal Sweeney.

Also in Brigadoon the man who loves the girl in Brigadoon, his LOVE is so strong he causes Brigadoon to rise and he crosses a bridge to get back to her... ("6B" - Emotions can cause quantum entanglement)

Additionally I feel something Bigger looming with Nina, Jones and the Shapeshifters...can't wait to see where this all leads! We're on episode 12, it can't be long now!

[DarthLocke]

One of the best episodes of the season. Actually, last four were so freaking amazing that I fear for what is to come.

First 15 minutes I thought I was watching Peter, Walter and Olivia guest starring in Lost. The plane crash, electromagnetism, not being able to leave, weird people killing other people... When Walter said that he had seen this before, I really expected him to say Lost but it was Brigadoon "a magical town in the forest that no one can leave"!

I'm still not willing to go "all in" on the Peter is where he belongs and he won't and can't go back to a destroyed universe, but my hand is itchy to do it. Anyway, no matter what happens, I'm just going to enjoy the ride till the end. And I changed my mind about season 5, now I crave it badly so it probably won't happen.

10/10

Sorry something went wrong I some how double posted (I must be converging with a doppleganger!)
Any ways my response is now the post right above this one. Sorry about this,

[Darque]

I know you wanted to see the Welcome to Westfield poster I meant to have done for Fringe Friday.. I posted it in the main site, but I know you subscribe to this or watch it more closely. XD

http://mediacdn.disqus.com/uploads/medi ... iginal.jpg

[WJames]

Additionally I feel something Bigger looming with Nina, Jones and the Shapeshifters...can't wait to see where this all leads! We're on episode 12, it can't be long now!

I'm sure that the picture is actually much bigger then we see it currently. Maybe Nina and Jones are aware of Observers and are in war with them and whoever is controlling them? Maybe the observers are evil and Jones and Nina are the "grey area" guys, though i can't really buy that after they destroyed an entire town!!!

I know you wanted to see the Welcome to Westfield poster I meant to have done for Fringe Friday.. I posted it in the main site, but I know you subscribe to this or watch it more closely. XD

http://mediacdn.disqus.com/uploads/medi ... iginal.jpg

*note to anyone clicking on the picture in the link: DON'T, I repeat, DON'T have any food in your mouth because:
A) you'll choke to death from laughter or B) you'll spit it on your screen and make a mess*

Broyles's face is priceless!!!

[DarthLocke]

I know you wanted to see the Welcome to Westfield poster I meant to have done for Fringe Friday.. I posted it in the main site, but I know you subscribe to this or watch it more closely. XD

http://mediacdn.disqus.com/uploads/medi ... iginal.jpg

It's just TOO cool!