[Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby JacobsMom on Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:05 am

In that previous episode during that scene between Peter and September when Peter had entered his mind, September specifically mentioned the fact that Henry was a mistake because Peter wasn't suppose to have a child with Red Olivia. He told Peter that the child was suppose to be with Our Olivia, so in this latest flash forward we see Henrietta, a future that was suppose to come to pass. I think this is the correct future we saw in 2036, and whether or not it is the result of our two universes combining somehow, I still believe that things are completely different now since Peter was "eliminated" from our universe by having him die as Walter brought him over.

Whatever we knew about William Bell, Nina and Walter from our original episodes before season 4, I don't think they matter anymore. TPTB have basically rewritten the time line when they started over this season. Yes, there is still similarities but nothing is exactly the same from the point where Peter drown as a boy in Reiden Lake. That's one of the problems of trying to use old story lines to figure out what is going on right now.
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:44 am

JacobsMom wrote:In that previous episode during that scene between Peter and September when Peter had entered his mind, September specifically mentioned the fact that Henry was a mistake because Peter wasn't suppose to have a child with Red Olivia. He told Peter that the child was suppose to be with Our Olivia, so in this latest flash forward we see Henrietta, a future that was suppose to come to pass. I think this is the correct future we saw in 2036, and whether or not it is the result of our two universes combining somehow, I still believe that things are completely different now since Peter was "eliminated" from our universe by having him die as Walter brought him over.

Whatever we knew about William Bell, Nina and Walter from our original episodes before season 4, I don't think they matter anymore. TPTB have basically rewritten the time line when they started over this season. Yes, there is still similarities but nothing is exactly the same from the point where Peter drown as a boy in Reiden Lake. That's one of the problems of trying to use old story lines to figure out what is going on right now.



I wouldn't say that it doesn't matter rather like all BR shows, characters and roles manifest into similar, but different people and/or there are role shifts (you can still draw parallels from the manifestation). We all argued for months if John Locke was reincarnated, as opposed to an entity (Smoke Monster/MIB) using his image and name as a driving force...It was a hard debate because Locke with more power/insight might have been a lot like MIB projecting Locke, except the big difference was one wanted to stay and protect the Island, while the other wanted to leave which required destroying the Island.

I am not sure if this is the correct future, as the tagline for the episode, is "fight the future"...but I do think dealing with this future directly is important to eventually having a better future, whether the show ends in this future or with another. (The film Nior aspect really reminds me of Felicity. One episode Help For the Lovelorn is VERY similar to Brown Betty both dealing with removing glass hearts in a film nior/twilight zone spoof...Felicity ended with time travel back to an alternate time line to try and change her path, but eventually returns back to her previous future, except that there is one person who exists in it that died right before any time travel occurred, suggesting yet a third time line... The eight ball is another reference that makes me also think of Felicity. She also dressed as "the Bride of Frankenstein" for Halloween in season one ;) )

The idea that any Observer would deem a child a mistake already shows a really horrific aspect to their logic, so the way they come to behave in this episode doesn't surprise me...but the whole thing might be intended in order for humanity to prove they have the right of passage and perhaps the real mistake humanity ever made was the Observers...

The comics have been rather generous with hints including the return of William Bell as in one comic, Bell is contacting Nina from beyond using her arm to write messages...

Just like using Mr. X, --Mr. X changes, but always relates to a leader of a terrorist group...but now because we have Jones and Widmark, which it's possible one of them serves the other, either are dangerous to Olivia, since September believes she still going to die, which is what Peter wanted to avoid by making his choice...So in the end it might be a dichotomy, as to what the whole truth is verse what the immediate truth is. I still think he is repenting for his and Walters' crimes over several life times...but I do expect a happy ending.
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:06 am

Just in case anyone missed the thread, FRINGE SEASON 5 is RENEWED for it's final 13 episode season! :thumbsup: http://www.spoilertv.com/2012/04/fringe-officially-renewed-for-5th.html
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby DharmaLager on Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:16 pm

DarthLocke wrote:Just in case anyone missed the thread, FRINGE SEASON 5 is RENEWED for it's final 13 episode season! :thumbsup: http://www.spoilertv.com/2012/04/fringe-officially-renewed-for-5th.html


Best news ever (well, at least since I saw that Chuck was getting a last season one year ago)
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby JacobsMom on Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:56 pm

DarthLocke wrote:Just in case anyone missed the thread, FRINGE SEASON 5 is RENEWED for it's final 13 episode season! :thumbsup: http://www.spoilertv.com/2012/04/fringe-officially-renewed-for-5th.html


:thumbsup: :thumbsup: Well, I guess TPTB weren't messing around with us when they said it was almost a done deal earlier this month. :D

I'm happy that the show will get to go out on a high note and have a chance to finish up on their own terms. I think that 13 episodes is plenty of time to tie up all the loose ends and make a nice ending for the viewers. Now, I'm curious if they will run the episodes in the Fall season right away and finish up with no breaks?? :hmm:
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby ChrisP on Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:04 pm

http://sportswrangler.wordpress.com/201 ... -season-5/

My fringe review, absoloutely loved the episode, and we got a season 5! :D :thumbsup:
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Sawyer: Light. Comma. Sticks. As in those legs of yours
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:35 pm

"World's Apart"

I def think in regards to the quantum mechanics involved we are going to have to "JUST GO WITH IT", as Lincoln Lee suggested.

Everything about the way this is panning out is a juxtaposition to what we thought the mechanics were in our season 1-3 time line, unless the machines get build from scratch on both sides, it seems unlikely what supposedly has been happening with the machine(s), will be able to happen again.

It's hard logic that you could use a bridge to stop the destruction of decaying universes, that it can heal, and that you can unhook them with out going back to decay...but it might emphasize a specific restoration process (trinity = immortality = revival), in which maybe Peter and the Machine created an iteration with some "reversed" laws (reciprocity).

It's all sort of interesting since the Observers own logic is often "backwards"...
Additionally seeing the cortexiphan subjects on the side of Jones and claim he is good, is also an opposition from what we saw before and It's still hard to predict how this relates to the Observers, which considering they thought Peter getting into the machine an important event, it was also strange to see them not here for Peter's dismantling of them (which by they way, where the heck did the machine go?--It's kind of similar to the anti-matter bomb Walter set off that engulfed MD in 2036)

If anything we might be seeing how things were ever created by seeing how to "uncreate" them.

As for everything else, It was nice to see some resolution from the Walters--and emphasis how important Peter's choice was...as Waltenate and Walter have found peace and balance between themselves... :thumbsup:

But what lingers for me is Being Better Than Your Father might require not only redeeming your own mistakes, but your fathers...I still wonder if Peter is inside the machine...in fact I feel more confident that's the case and this reality is along side/with in ours. (word in title sequence: "ethereal")

At any rate can't wait for our finale episodes and to see how we get from 2012 to 2036!
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby WJames on Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:22 am

DarthLocke wrote:
I def think in regards to the quantum mechanics involved we are going to have to "JUST GO WITH IT", as Lincoln Lee suggested.

Everything about the way this is panning out is a juxtaposition to what we thought the mechanics were in our season 1-3 time line, unless the machines get build from scratch on both sides, it seems unlikely what supposedly has been happening with the machine(s), will be able to happen again.

It's hard logic that you could use a bridge to stop the destruction of decaying universes, that it can heal, and that you can unhook them with out going back to decay...but it might emphasize a specific restoration process (trinity = immortality = revival), in which maybe Peter and the Machine created an iteration with some "reversed" laws (reciprocity).

It's all sort of interesting since the Observers own logic is often "backwards"...
Additionally seeing the cortexiphan subjects on the side of Jones and claim he is good, is also an opposition from what we saw before and It's still hard to predict how this relates to the Observers, which considering they thought Peter getting into the machine an important event, it was also strange to see them not here for Peter's dismantling of them (which by they way, where the heck did the machine go?--It's kind of similar to the anti-matter bomb Walter set off that engulfed MD in 2036)

If anything we might be seeing how things were ever created by seeing how to "uncreate" them.

As for everything else, It was nice to see some resolution from the Walters--and emphasis how important Peter's choice was...as Waltenate and Walter have found peace and balance between themselves... :thumbsup:

But what lingers for me is Being Better Than Your Father might require not only redeeming your own mistakes, but your fathers...I still wonder if Peter is inside the machine...in fact I feel more confident that's the case and this reality is along side/with in ours. (word in title sequence: "ethereal")

At any rate can't wait for our finale episodes and to see how we get from 2012 to 2036!


I bolded the parts that bothered me this episode and I thought that Peter definitely needed to go back into the machine to undo the bridge but they simplified the process with him just putting his arm into that gizmo :|

I don't know, I just didn't get into this episode as I thought I would. Though it was nice seeing Nick Lane again and Walter/Walter, Peter/Linc, Olivia/Bolivia moments (Linc didn't say goodbye to Olive???)

I guess I should have known that the high from the awesomeness that was the last episode had to go down with this one, which was basically a setup epi before the finale. Finale that will hopefully blow our minds, in a good way of course!!! :P

"World's Apart" 7/10
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:03 pm

WJames wrote:
DarthLocke wrote:
I def think in regards to the quantum mechanics involved we are going to have to "JUST GO WITH IT", as Lincoln Lee suggested.

Everything about the way this is panning out is a juxtaposition to what we thought the mechanics were in our season 1-3 time line, unless the machines get build from scratch on both sides, it seems unlikely what supposedly has been happening with the machine(s), will be able to happen again.

It's hard logic that you could use a bridge to stop the destruction of decaying universes, that it can heal, and that you can unhook them with out going back to decay...but it might emphasize a specific restoration process (trinity = immortality = revival), in which maybe Peter and the Machine created an iteration with some "reversed" laws (reciprocity).

It's all sort of interesting since the Observers own logic is often "backwards"...
Additionally seeing the cortexiphan subjects on the side of Jones and claim he is good, is also an opposition from what we saw before and It's still hard to predict how this relates to the Observers, which considering they thought Peter getting into the machine an important event, it was also strange to see them not here for Peter's dismantling of them (which by they way, where the heck did the machine go?--It's kind of similar to the anti-matter bomb Walter set off that engulfed MD in 2036)

If anything we might be seeing how things were ever created by seeing how to "uncreate" them.

As for everything else, It was nice to see some resolution from the Walters--and emphasis how important Peter's choice was...as Waltenate and Walter have found peace and balance between themselves... :thumbsup:

But what lingers for me is Being Better Than Your Father might require not only redeeming your own mistakes, but your fathers...I still wonder if Peter is inside the machine...in fact I feel more confident that's the case and this reality is along side/with in ours. (word in title sequence: "ethereal")

At any rate can't wait for our finale episodes and to see how we get from 2012 to 2036!


I bolded the parts that bothered me this episode and I thought that Peter definitely needed to go back into the machine to undo the bridge but they simplified the process with him just putting his arm into that gizmo :|

I don't know, I just didn't get into this episode as I thought I would. Though it was nice seeing Nick Lane again and Walter/Walter, Peter/Linc, Olivia/Bolivia moments (Linc didn't say goodbye to Olive???)

I guess I should have known that the high from the awesomeness that was the last episode had to go down with this one, which was basically a setup epi before the finale. Finale that will hopefully blow our minds, in a good way of course!!! :P

"World's Apart" 7/10


I feel similar. I thought it was fast paced and I liked the relationship facet, except I expected more from blue Olivia (For me it felt like she wasn't herself, -wasn't trying very hard) but I def agree after last weeks episode, I knew it would be hard to go back to this time period, because I know I am very anxious to see "how" they all get there (story wise) and what happened to Olivia, but after a rewatch I thought the episode was much better.

I think seeing opposites is going to become more predominant ...now Peter doesn't need Olivia's help (crowbar) or needs to get into the machine, because the Walter's and Olivia's (the universes) get along, David Robert Jones fixed the cortexifaners and they deem him as "good" (which some people think he might be good now!)...And then going back to August, the Observers always seem to do things that don't make sense...Christine Hollis can have a future and live, because she killed an Observer-agent! O.o

But there might also be hint with this whole thing in season 1....During "The Ghost Network" Walter had to use the brain-translater machine by drilling into the guys head...we get to "Inner Child" and suddenly Walter remembers that he doesn't have to drill holes that he can modify it and use it differently...that machine was used again in this episode with Olivia the alternate Nick Lane...It might be that Peter's machines are designed to initiate phases...phase 1, in which to get to phase 2 (the machine(s) will take care of themselves)....and something else may get us to phase 3, ect...

One of the words in title sequence is "ethereal" --so this reality may be different somehow (in terms of laws physics), but I think it's almost like 'if" the Dharma Initiative/Desmond could have used the FS, while everyone was still alive, to change their future results...

i could be wrong, but things "here" are definitely becoming more different than before...

PS: after talking with LockeUp, I wonder if Widmark is September's father! :w00t:
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby WJames on Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:22 pm

DarthLocke wrote:PS: after talking with LockeUp, I wonder if Widmark is September's father! :w00t:

I guess it's possible and if the Observers are descendants of Peter then that Greek saying Einai kalytero anthropo apo ton patera toy could be applied to September also. But it is possible that they are all created and engineered, not born through conventional means, though they did use prostitute services last episode which would mean that they are sexual beings after all... :O :O :unsure:
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby JacobsMom on Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:17 pm

"Worlds Apart"

I have to agree that this was just a good episode for me too. I always rewatch Fringe though and that helps so much for the little things I miss the first time around. :) I also went back and watched "Westfield" too which helped with the whole idea that Peter mentions in the beginning scene in the conference room.

I really looked at this episode as a conclusion to the story line of these two universes since I don't think we will be seeing the Red characters again. TPTB accomplished the scenario of making them allies and the healing made the Red Universe a better place in the end. Sure Red Olivia still doesn't get her rainbows but who knows what could happen? ;) There was a quick but comfortable ending to closing the bridge and shutting down the machine. I thought the premise of Peter disappearing again was sort of way past the fact of shock or surprise too. Of course, we still have the machine waiting on our side and theirs(?) but I think this story line has been told, tbh.

Maybe this episode wasn't that great since Peter already told the viewers that the bridge would need to be shut down for sure. The process was already started and even doing the whole "mind thing" with Red Nick Lane didn't help anything except to capture our Nick Lane and try to use him to stop Jones. I have to agree with Darth that Our Olivia just didn't seem to "in" to doing her job this episode. I kept thinking she should have brought the Red Nick Lane in to meet his double in hopes that this seemingly normal Nick could somehow help our Nick Lane. Anyway, Nick was a true follower of Jones and he led the team on a wild goose chase just so he could escape, so Olivia didn't have a chance to influence him at all.

I couldn't help thinking back to the earlier seasons of how our side actually took in the cortexiphan kids/adults to help them recover at MD. In this "Peterless" time line, that didn't happen. Jones got to them instead and convinced them he was their savior this time around.

My favorite scenes were between Walter and Walternate. First, Walternate is the one to back up Walter on his crazy dream theory. Sometimes, it's hard to imagine the first Walternate we were introduced too so long ago. Later the scene between them as they both realize that Peter was much more than their son was pretty darn good! :thumbsup: I still say that John Noble has done an amazing job of acting on this show and has not received the recognition he deserves. :( That scene of him portraying those two characters sitting down side by side in the hallway was superb! :thumbsup:

Best line of all was Walter saying to Walternate, "I've come to accept that he's not ours."( referring to Peter)

Fun stuff:

Walter looking dapper in his dark shirt and tie!
The dorky looking picture slides that Walter used in his presentation!! (Pure Walter :) )
The double Olivia's answering their phones in the conference room as the earthquake begins.
Walter using "Don't Break The Ice" game in the lab.
Another "Wizard the Oz" reference with the mention of rainbows between Olivia and Red Olivia.
Peter quickly calls one of the agents in the raid to find Nick Lane...Agent Pace...(Pacey!!)

Questions??

Walter mentions that he didn't realize how brilliant Jones must be to come up with his plan. Does this mean there is someone else behind Jones?? William Bell?
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby supermodel on Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:26 am

I think I have to watch it again before I comment at length. But I really liked the end of the show when Walter said "I think I'm going to miss them." I feel the same way, and that is really saying something. Two years ago when they first introduced the red universe, I was very unhappy and I really didn't like it. Each week I was mad that I had to spend time over there and not with the "real" characters. Fast forward two years and I think our current red Olivia is the best version of her, I really like her a lot. And I have really all the red people and I've enjoyed the red universe storyline and I am going to miss it.
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby DharmaLager on Tue May 01, 2012 12:24 am

supermodel wrote:I think I have to watch it again before I comment at length. But I really liked the end of the show when Walter said "I think I'm going to miss them." I feel the same way, and that is really saying something. Two years ago when they first introduced the red universe, I was very unhappy and I really didn't like it. Each week I was mad that I had to spend time over there and not with the "real" characters. Fast forward two years and I think our current red Olivia is the best version of her, I really like her a lot. And I have really all the red people and I've enjoyed the red universe storyline and I am going to miss it.


This - you put a lot of what I think into context. I wasn't sure if I'd enjoy these new characters and wanted to see more time spent with "our" characters - but I put faith in the writers and the show certainly delivered. I think it's very telling when a character gets to in someways, speak for the audience, and in many ways I believe Walter was doing that.
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Tue May 01, 2012 2:51 am

JacobsMom wrote:Peter quickly calls one of the agents in the raid to find Nick Lane...Agent Pace...(Pacey!!)


:w00t: I totally thought of Charlie Pace, but your connection is SO MUCH BETTER :thumbsup: I really hope this summer we can get another Pacey-Con! :lol:
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby DharmaLager on Tue May 01, 2012 4:29 pm

I've heard a few think we may never see the other world again - I personally don't believe it though. Are the worlds truly closed for good in everyone's opinion?
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