[Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby JacobsMom on Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:01 am

Darque wrote:I know you wanted to see the Welcome to Westfield poster I meant to have done for Fringe Friday.. I posted it in the main site, but I know you subscribe to this or watch it more closely. XD

http://mediacdn.disqus.com/uploads/medi ... iginal.jpg


Awesome poster!!! :thumbsup: Thanks for posting this Darque. :D

My favorites are the Observer munchkins.
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:40 pm

"A Better Human Being"

Well I am with Walter and Peter's first response in which what is happening to this Olivia is not really a good thing. The Machine tries to give Peter what he wants of needs. It feels him and creates what he needs. I felt after LSD, that his awareness to whom Olivia was might not only reflect the past in which red Olivia disguised herself as blue Olivia, but that another Olivia (one who is much much closer to his) would become apart of his life again. I am not saying that she isn't our Olivia at all, but rather their could be severe consequences should it remain permanent.

However, it's also possible that if Peter's time line went on with out him, that his Olivia is looking for him...and perhaps her wish fulfillment via Peter and Machine in conjunction ("6B" Love can cause quantum entanglement across time and space) with the re engineered cortexifan, allows "bee hive mind" to occur with this Olivia. (memory transference). As I said before, I think Peter needs his "crow bar" (something that helps him get into the machine) to get home...and now she is here.

The Bee Hive Mind aspect clearly plays into the boys collective abilities, but this again may also reflect the abilities of the Observers, as I believe they were made by man ('a better human being') in some long lost time line, as like the Observers have collective conscience of thought (telepathy and multi-time viewing experiences), and like the Observers share certian DNA ( a type of group clone system), but yet don't look 'exactly identical.

Oh and TWO Nina Sharps! Good call to you guys who saw that coming! I am still torn if she is a true doppleganger or not, or if Jones shapeshifters killed the Other Sharp, or if they don't need to kill anymore to take on another person's appearance????

Really liked the episode. A lot of intense moments! -----but Next weeks looks amazing!
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby JacobsMom on Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:58 pm

"A Better Human Being"

It was not a big shock to me that we discover that Nina was behind the process of giving Olivia cortexiphan all along. But it was a big shock that it isn't the Nina we thought it was! I'm sort of leaning towards her being a shape shifter of Jones' because that would make the most sense. We know Jones has been trying to get people inside Fringe Division(possibly Broyles) so why not Nina too? I don't see why a double/Red Universe Nina would be helping him not unless this Jones is really from the Red Universe in the first place. I suppose if a Red Nina never got to be part of Walternate's team over there, then she could be working against him from this side.

My favorite scenes were the ones between Astrid and Shawn. The first one where he tells her he's hearing all these voices again and then we see they are all alone in the cafeteria was pretty cool. The best one was when she came to see him later when his mother is there and he has finally stopped hearing voices. It was a very touching scene and I loved how Astrid told him, "I bet you have a lot of great thoughts." :wub: I really like all the stuff this Astrid has shown us so far this season. :thumbup:

Walter has really become Our Walter to the point you can't tell the difference anymore. He can go out on these cases and has no trouble working with people to solve the crime. He was my favorite part of the whole episode as he works both on the mysterious case with Shawn and what is going on with Olivia. I actually think he had an idea of what was wrong with Olivia when he acted like he forgot his theory. I believe that he took the hair sample to prove his secret theory and it was so brave of him to go to see Nina who he has always been scared of in this universe. He's definitely a new man for sure! :lol: I think my favorite part of the whole episode was when he took a drink of that cortexiphan bottle! The look on this Nina's face was priceless. :thumbup:

Fun stuff:
Walter at ease talking to the man in the hallway at the mental hospital.
The weird contraption that they had over Olivia's head in the lab! (looked like a hair dryer hood from a beauty shop) :lol:
Walter making tea with the beaker over the bunsen burner!

Creepiest scene:
Dr. Frank tells the killers, "You're mine" and then we see him later sitting in the chair dead with his eyes open!! :scared:
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby WJames on Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:43 am

AMAZING EPISODE! That is like the fifth episode in a row! I'm sorry Fringe that I ever doubted you. Alt-Nina Sharp reveal was awesome or is she a shapeshifter?! Can shapeshifters take someone's identity without killing them because if I remember correctly all of the victims were killed even with the new breed of shapeshifters?? And what happened with red Nina before the Amberverse? I can't remember.

All the Peter Olivia interactions were brilliant, case of the week was also engaging enough and there is nothing Walter won't drink or taste, which turns out to be a good thing. :lol: When Peter entered the store to search for Olive in the end, I was totally expecting a scene showing us that she translocated herself to some other universe (possibly ours) like when she went to that gift shop in season 3.


DarthLocke wrote:Well I am with Walter and Peter's first response in which what is happening to this Olivia is not really a good thing. The Machine tries to give Peter what he wants of needs. It feels him and creates what he needs. I felt after LSD, that his awareness to whom Olivia was might not only reflect the past in which red Olivia disguised herself as blue Olivia, but that another Olivia (one who is much much closer to his) would become apart of his life again. I am not saying that she isn't our Olivia at all, but rather their could be severe consequences should it remain permanent


I believe that the reasons why Olivia was injected with cortexofan were wrong and RDJ wants to use her talents for evil purposes but I'm pretty sure that in the end her abilities will be used for good and most importantly the emergence of our Olivia's memories is nothing more than a happy side effect for Peter, allowing him to be with his Olivia. At first I thought that TPTB will take the "Chuck" finale route where he has to make Sarah fall in love with him again, but I'm glad it didn't happen like that in Fringe.

DarthLocke wrote:However, it's also possible that if Peter's time line went on with out him, that his Olivia is looking for him...and perhaps her wish fulfillment via Peter and Machine in conjunction ("6B" Love can cause quantum entanglement across time and space) with the re engineered cortexifan, allows "bee hive mind" to occur with this Olivia. (memory transference). As I said before, I think Peter needs his "crow bar" (something that helps him get into the machine) to get home...and now she is here.


What I think that happened with the timeline Peter came from is that it got erased, replaced, destroyed the moment he bridged two universes together and created this amberverse. So there is nowhere to go back to for him. But we just have to wait and see what happens. And if, how or when the machine is used again or by whom (I would like to cram one little Observer in it to see what happens. :P )

Anyway, "A Better Human Being" was awesome!

9,8/10

Promos for the next one look even more promising!!! Mister X?
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:11 pm

I disagree because if you watch the final scene in the season finale, Peter disappears from the physical world as part of the physical convergence, the world doesn't disappear. We see it AFTER he leaves it.

You can't erase time. Time doesn't exist, only history does, and many theorist think that you can't erase history. You either can "add on to it" (create/travel to an alternate timeline or continue to travel linear in it) or rearrange it, but even a rearrangement is considered "alternate" since it is not the same as before because of CHANGES of 'this' or 'that'.

If you rewatch the Day We Died, we learn that there are several already existing histories to "our" time line that had already existed and that Peter has to choose balance in order to avoid repeating the fate of the history that the past-future showed him---which was actually the memories of a previous Peter who existed in another timeline that was somehow preserved 'inside' the machine ("Peter and the Machine")

Clause Penrose (The Same Old Story) is a reference to Sir Roger Penrose...

The Conformal Cyclic Cosmology (CCC) is a cosmological model in the framework of general relativity, advanced by the theoretical physicist Sir Roger Penrose.[1][2] In CCC, the universe iterates through infinite cycles, with the future timelike infinity of each previous iteration being identified with the Big Bang singularity of the next.[3] Penrose outlines this theory in his 2010 book Cycles of Time: An Extraordinary New View of the Universe.


The Observers wanted to erase PETER from time (because once again you can't erase time--September goes to buy equipment to try and illuminate him from time again), but Peter materialized (physical action) "Here" and it probably has something to do with the cortexifan, his choice of "Balance", quantum entanglement, and perhaps even the bad Nina Sharp and Jones.

The Observers don't view time linear...so they might not look at a time line or iterations like we would, because for them they have capacity to see inifinant pasts and futures simultaneously. They may not recognize the real difference between "here" and "there" because they know it's all interrelated. And the point was that OUR Peter was not to exist 'anywhere' corporeal.

The comic "Peter and the Machine" and a dream sequence from a few episodes ago ("Back to When You've Never Been"-I think) suggest the Machine is broke or "needs fixed". --I don't think Peter would dream it and the audience get wind of it, if there wasn't truth to it.

Our Olivia has been another Olivia before ("Olivia") and it was an "astral Peter" who acted as "her Peter" that helped Olivia find herself and told her how to go HOME, get back to 'her corporeal' Peter.

I think it would be beautiful writing if this Olivia became our Olivia just so Peter could go home. Just as some manifestation of himself helped her.

Plus if reciprocity has to occur to save and/or have a place in his timeline (set the Observers beliefs aside), then how would one get him to CARE about the people in this timeline...by bringing them "here".

I agree that Jones has an agenda and wants to activate Bell's subjects again too, but I think there are MULTIPLE reasons for all of this things as J.J. Abrams says, it's multi-layred. Jones by having Shapeshifters is also then reinforcing the season 2 and 3 story lines with Newton. It's hard to predict where to go, but I can only see something either dealing with time periods and/or temporal cold war across several iterations.

Clearly the Shapeshifters and the other Observers aren't keen on Peter's presence here, and neither was Walter...And it's not like Peter didn't say he thinks he could be causing problems "here"

And Those We Left Behind: (which is a double meaning pun that people, like 'Peter's People', got left behind)

OLIVIA: You think this has something to do with time travel?
PETER: No. Not exactly. I think this has something to do with time displacement. And I think that, when I came back here, I somehow damaged the space-time continuum. And, if that's the case, there may not actually be any rules to it. (starts writing equations on the board)
OLIVIA: Like the apartment. The fire and the baby. The mother didn't revert to a younger age, but her daughter did.
PETER: Yeah. Precisely. I can't explain it yet, but, as far as I can tell, these anomalies are just gonna keep on increasing exponentially. I mean, if we can judge anything by the damage done by that fire in the apartment, these things are just gonna keep on getting worse.

So despite that 'Olivia' is here. I don't think it's permanent, or can she stay "here", and I do think there is a "there" still out there...I think this passage is proof enough along with Walter's reluctance that Peter to some degree is a threat to their timeline and he can't stay forever either, because he is destroying it faster...

The only way everyone else could be right is if the Observers and the Machine changed the memories of the people in the time line...then it's a matter of "False memory" ---but I don't see how because characters that were dead, are alive...and so "alternate reality" seems like the only way.
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby WJames on Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:32 pm

DarthLocke wrote:I disagree because if you watch the final scene in the season finale, Peter disappears from the physical world as part of the physical convergence, the world doesn't disappear. We see it AFTER he leaves it.

But what timeline are we seeing? The original one or the Peterless one? I believe it to be the latter. We, the audience see this new timeline taking place instead of the old one. New memories taking place instead of the old ones. Physicality of the old blue and red universes does not disappear, it is constant, but the timeline changes, mutates, rearranges events and people to what they would have been without Peter ever existing. That is the best way I can describe my theory and I'm no expert in quantum physics.

This is the original timeline:
________________________________________________________________________________________

then Peter's part here is replaced with
________________________________________________________________________________________

the new set of events which he is not part of:
________________________________________________________________________________________


DarthLocke wrote:You can't erase time. Time doesn't exist, only history does, and many theorist think that you can't erase history. You either can "add on to it" (create/travel to an alternate timeline or continue to travel linear in it) or rearrange it.

I know you can't erase TIME, how could you erase a measuring system used to sequence events? No, I never said that, but you can erase events, at least in ScFi. And most certainly in Fringe, which means that those events Peter was a part of or had influence on, Peter's timeline, his part in history was effectively deleted by the machine's magic and/or Observers. But because of Septembers actions, Peter exists and is a wild card, an unpredictable variable that lives and breathes. Think of White Tulip, Peck altered the timeline several times and by the episodes ending we were following the last iteration where he and his wife both died and Walter got his divine intervention. Basically Peter is this universe's Divine Intervention.
Anyway this whole thing is still confusing and we need more answers. I'm also thinking that if amberverse takes completely different place in space then what the original Peterverse did, that the Peterverse was not bridged and in effect got destroyed by collision of the universes so again there is nowhere for Peter to go to. Cause and effect. Amberverse is the effect caused by Peter bridging the two universes. His subsequent deletion from it was a possible side-effect or a deliberate machination from the Observers.
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:49 pm

WJames wrote:
DarthLocke wrote:I disagree because if you watch the final scene in the season finale, Peter disappears from the physical world as part of the physical convergence, the world doesn't disappear. We see it AFTER he leaves it.

But what timeline are we seeing? The original one or the Peterless one? I believe it to be the latter. We, the audience see this new timeline taking place instead of the old one. New memories taking place instead of the old ones. Physicality of the old blue and red universes does not disappear, it is constant, but the timeline changes, mutates, rearranges events and people to what they would have been without Peter ever existing. That is the best way I can describe my theory and I'm no expert in quantum physics.

This is the original timeline:
________________________________________________________________________________________

then Peter's part here is replaced with
________________________________________________________________________________________

the new set of events which he is not part of:
________________________________________________________________________________________


DarthLocke wrote:You can't erase time. Time doesn't exist, only history does, and many theorist think that you can't erase history. You either can "add on to it" (create/travel to an alternate timeline or continue to travel linear in it) or rearrange it.

I know you can't erase TIME, how could you erase a measuring system used to sequence events? No, I never said that, but you can erase events, at least in ScFi. And most certainly in Fringe, which means that those events Peter was a part of or had influence on, Peter's timeline, his part in history was effectively deleted by the machine's magic and/or Observers. But because of Septembers actions, Peter exists and is a wild card, an unpredictable variable that lives and breathes. Think of White Tulip, Peck altered the timeline several times and by the episodes ending we were following the last iteration where he and his wife both died and Walter got his divine intervention. Basically Peter is this universe's Divine Intervention.
Anyway this whole thing is still confusing and we need more answers. I'm also thinking that if amberverse takes completely different place in space then what the original Peterverse did, that the Peterverse was not bridged and in effect got destroyed by collision of the universes so again there is nowhere for Peter to go to. Cause and effect. Amberverse is the effect caused by Peter bridging the two universes. His subsequent deletion from it was a possible side-effect or a deliberate machination from the Observers.


I see what you mean, but no matter what it is an alteration (even if it is only at certain points), and there for a different timeline....

But he shouldn't be able to "bring" his Olivia "here" in the rearranged timeline unless her memories are preserved elsewhere. (Of course to support your argument - William Bell is surely the key to that)

Plus the time displacement should also not be having these kind of effects just because of his existence if this was/is just a new altered timeline....there shouldn't be this heavy of a course correction unless he is fighting a future that has already been written----When he goes into the machine we learn that he has to make a choice in order to aviod a history (another timeline's future) from repeating. It suggests that his future can be changed, because his timeline has not been written. The time he arrives "here" is past the time of when he ever existed in his own timeline (2011). He shouldn't have to fight against an existence that he never had, unless this history already existed prior to his own existence.

Plus he shouldn't be able to materialize unless something "makes" him. Now this Olivia with cortexifan could be the cause...but it would mean that "Peter's past" (in some way) still exists, because she would have to sense the previous time line and her memories in order to for her to "wish it so". To dream Peter here. When Alester Peck reset himself, it didn't wipe out history, he just kept making new ones, and the old one's should still be there carrying on with out him (Olivia lightly remembers herself)...we just don't get to see it that way, because we are following Peck...but tech. we were with 3 new mini iterations of characters from the end of the episode on.

IMO Time lines in Penrose theory plus resets and/or loops/black holes would look more like a tree, where certain timelines share certain branches, stems, trunk, roots, at certain points, but then can also randomly branch off--but all related and intertwined.

The Observers would of had to "cement" a certain future and it would have already of had to happen for Peter to be fighting this grain....I am not saying it couldn't happen, just that that's exceptionally complicated.

But thinking about what I just wrote:
He shouldn't have to fight against an existence that he never had, unless this history already existed prior to his own existence.


--If in a long lost Original timeline or the first iteration before the first loop(s), If Peter was a type of genetically engineered man (a clone of Walter), then it might be that the Observers view Peter as the virus of "time"...if they reset (which means to go back to a) to a time in which Peter didn't exist, but tried to make it current, then this could be another reason why Peter shouldn't be (here), because maybe he isn't suppose to arrive until later?

I personally think the Observers are the problem and not Peter and they don't see themselves clearly.

But you're right it is confusing.



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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby Darque on Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:24 pm

With the glyphs this week spelling out "H-E-N-R-Y" and seeing Henry birth in the flashbacks promoting the episode, I would if Henry is something (or someone) far more important than I initially thought. Could he be responsible for Jones and the shifters working towards Olivia remembering everything? If so could that goal be to get Olivia and Peter together in that timeline so that he can be conceived/ born?

Could Henry be "Mr. Calender" of SpoilerTV podcast infamy, the leader of the Observers? XD

The other nagging thought I have is the Observers. Observer tech usually had red and blue lights. No one in FRINGE is more Red and Blue than Peter.... Having been born in Red universe and raised in Blue and having bridged the two universe in the machine. Could Peter be behind the Observers, or Peter within the BBM maybe?

While on the topic of the Observers. ... There is something so odd about beings that are not limited by time or that do not see time as linear all having the names of months - very linear and defined units of time. There has to be a reason to that. IT can't be random naming convention can it?

Looking forward to this week's episode!
Not looking forward to the following hiatus. XD
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby WJames on Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:15 pm

DarthLocke wrote:...would look more like a tree, where certain timelines share certain branches, stems, trunk, roots, at certain points, but then can also randomly branch off--but all related and intertwined.

YES!!! Like a tree! Image
Only, I see Peter's original timeline like a branch that got sick, died and fell off. Or maybe it is still there, but it's terminally ill and beyond any help. I feel that amberverse is currently the most healthy branch, the strongest part of the tree. The most stable one if you like. I also don't believe that Peter's continuing existence caused any disturbance or anything bad to the amberverse, or that it will! Everything bad that happened so far was related to someone else (Green, RDJ). The observers may believe differently, but we know September deflected so... I'm actually drooling when thinking about the next episode. :w00t:

Darque wrote:With the glyphs this week spelling out "H-E-N-R-Y" and seeing Henry birth in the flashbacks promoting the episode, I would if Henry is something (or someone) far more important than I initially thought. Could he be responsible for Jones and the shifters working towards Olivia remembering everything? If so could that goal be to get Olivia and Peter together in that timeline so that he can be conceived/ born?

Could Henry be "Mr. Calender" of SpoilerTV podcast infamy, the leader of the Observers? XD

The other nagging thought I have is the Observers. Observer tech usually had red and blue lights. No one in FRINGE is more Red and Blue than Peter.... Having been born in Red universe and raised in Blue and having bridged the two universe in the machine. Could Peter be behind the Observers, or Peter within the BBM maybe?

While on the topic of the Observers. ... There is something so odd about beings that are not limited by time or that do not see time as linear all having the names of months - very linear and defined units of time. There has to be a reason to that. IT can't be random naming convention can it?

Looking forward to this week's episode!
Not looking forward to the following hiatus. XD


If it weren't for glyphs I wouldn't even remember Henry, the child that never existed in this timeline. :huh: So many options to go with him. Maybe Darth is right and the original timeline - red and blue universes survived and continued without Peter because he stayed in amberverse which he wasn't suppose to. Henry grew up and somehow engineered the observers to police the timelines in search for Peter. Or not. :P

Maybe having names of the months sorts them in chronological order of when they were created by who ever created them (Peter, Henry, Walter...) for whatever purpose. If that makes sense.

How long is this hiatus??? Fringe will be back after it? Won't it? They wouldn't dare cancel it without finishing at least this season? :scared:
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby JacobsMom on Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:43 am

After reading those posts by DarthLocke and WJames, I think my head hurts! :lol:

I do agree with Darth though and believe this universe is a separate one that Peter got dragged into.

I checked on the hiatus and after this next episode, Feb. 24th, Fringe won't be back on until March 23rd. :(
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:39 am

WJames wrote:
DarthLocke wrote:...would look more like a tree, where certain timelines share certain branches, stems, trunk, roots, at certain points, but then can also randomly branch off--but all related and intertwined.

YES!!! Like a tree! Image
Only, I see Peter's original timeline like a branch that got sick, died and fell off. Or maybe it is still there, but it's terminally ill and beyond any help. I feel that amberverse is currently the most healthy branch, the strongest part of the tree. The most stable one if you like. I also don't believe that Peter's continuing existence caused any disturbance or anything bad to the amberverse, or that it will! Everything bad that happened so far was related to someone else (Green, RDJ). The observers may believe differently, but we know September deflected so... I'm actually drooling when thinking about the next episode. :w00t:

Darque wrote:With the glyphs this week spelling out "H-E-N-R-Y" and seeing Henry birth in the flashbacks promoting the episode, I would if Henry is something (or someone) far more important than I initially thought. Could he be responsible for Jones and the shifters working towards Olivia remembering everything? If so could that goal be to get Olivia and Peter together in that timeline so that he can be conceived/ born?

Could Henry be "Mr. Calender" of SpoilerTV podcast infamy, the leader of the Observers? XD

The other nagging thought I have is the Observers. Observer tech usually had red and blue lights. No one in FRINGE is more Red and Blue than Peter.... Having been born in Red universe and raised in Blue and having bridged the two universe in the machine. Could Peter be behind the Observers, or Peter within the BBM maybe?

While on the topic of the Observers. ... There is something so odd about beings that are not limited by time or that do not see time as linear all having the names of months - very linear and defined units of time. There has to be a reason to that. IT can't be random naming convention can it?

Looking forward to this week's episode!
Not looking forward to the following hiatus. XD


If it weren't for glyphs I wouldn't even remember Henry, the child that never existed in this timeline. :huh: So many options to go with him. Maybe Darth is right and the original timeline - red and blue universes survived and continued without Peter because he stayed in amberverse which he wasn't suppose to. Henry grew up and somehow engineered the observers to police the timelines in search for Peter. Or not. :P

Maybe having names of the months sorts them in chronological order of when they were created by who ever created them (Peter, Henry, Walter...) for whatever purpose. If that makes sense.

How long is this hiatus??? Fringe will be back after it? Won't it? They wouldn't dare cancel it without finishing at least this season? :scared:



You make you good point about about "phantom limb" :thumbup: (and cool tree pic!)

In the comic Peter and the Machine, the second part continues with Peter (really the memory of the other one, but Peter experiences like it is himself) traveling to various time periods to dismantle the machine...he gets to an unknown date to a mythical Irish Island, one person he meets is a women in a green dress and she doesn't have an arm (like Nina Sharp), but the artist drew an outline of the arms to suggest she once had one...

Just talking out loud here, not trying to argue, just trying to wrap my head around the previous plots...

The whole thing really is sort of a conundrum, because the Observers and Bell really pushed for Peter to use the machine. They left the page of manuscript/prophecy for Olivia to find, they tried to prepare Walter for 'the loss of Peter', but yet if using the machine meant Peter "should" die, to what end does that serve them, when they can just kill him?

And then if he was a problem last time, then why didn't the time line have the same kind of effects that this one seems to have with his existence (that's why I think in this case it would have to be the timeline itself and not Peter--but rather a war of past existences-but yet the season 4 course is not trying to eliminate Peter, not like say Olivia...)

Additionally if the machine was bate for Peter, then what's the point in seeing another Peter's experiences, to make a different choice, if he ultimately isn't suppose to have one???

But Henry is a reoccurring name in Fringe (as is Amanda)
There is:
Walter's Uncle (Henry Bishop?)
Henry Jacobson
Henry Gray
Henry the Cab Driver
and Henry Bishop.

They all seem to convey Hope, Family, and the Future! :)

I think it would be GREAT if Henry the cab driver, or some version of Henry Bishop would be involved! :thumbsup:

I keep thinking there has to be some point for there to be a bridge "here" too (the machines activated somehow)...it wouldn't make sense to have one, if Peter wasn't there to create it.... :S

I too hope we get a fifth season! This season has really been great and fun to talk about. It would be a shame to end it too soon!

JacobsMom wrote:After reading those posts by DarthLocke and WJames, I think my head hurts! :lol:

I do agree with Darth though and believe this universe is a separate one that Peter got dragged into.

I checked on the hiatus and after this next episode, Feb. 24th, Fringe won't be back on until March 23rd. :(


Next Friday is my Birthday! :blush: I am so excited, but it's going to be hard too! I kind of wish we weren't getting another hiatus SO soon! :cursing:
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby supermodel on Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:42 pm

Hi everyone, I'm back. After being way for a month I had missed four episodes. Thanks to jet lag I was up all night Sunday, so I watched four episodes in a row. Pretty great stuff.

I am interested in this stuff with Peter and Olivia but at the same time I am wary. I am not sure I like Peter saying that he knows she is "his" IOlivia so it tis OK to be with her. becuase I don;t wnt him to stay here, Iw ant to see the timelines resolved, and I think if Peter satys it is a way for the writers to let themselves off the hook. But I guess I will have to be patient and see how it plays out.

On the other hand, I was intrigued by Peter's actions. Last season, he was tricked into thinking Red Olivia was Blue Olivia and in essence cheated on her with herself, and the result was not good. This season he is well aware that Amber Olvia is not Blue Olivia but he CHOOSES to cheat on her with herself, because he believes they are essentially the same person.
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby JacobsMom on Sat Feb 25, 2012 2:10 am

DarthLocke wrote:Next Friday is my Birthday! :blush: I am so excited, but it's going to be hard too! I kind of wish we weren't getting another hiatus SO soon! :cursing:


HAPPY BIRTHDAY DarthLocke!!! :thumbsup:

Hope you had a good one on Fringe Friday. :D
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:00 pm

JacobsMom wrote:
DarthLocke wrote:Next Friday is my Birthday! :blush: I am so excited, but it's going to be hard too! I kind of wish we weren't getting another hiatus SO soon! :cursing:


HAPPY BIRTHDAY DarthLocke!!! :thumbsup:

Hope you had a good one on Fringe Friday. :D



Thanks SO much, JacobsMom! :D ---It was pretty good especially because of FRINGE Friday! :w00t:


"The End of All Things"

LOVED The EPISODE, it definitely was one of my favorites!

It seems I wasn't to far off in that the Observers were an extension of humanity in some future of some long lost timeline and play on the notion of 'a better human being'.

I don't know if the episode helps us understand anything however...
In the last post I tried to go back and analyse the idea that Peter was lead to use the machine, by both The Observers (passed on the prophecy to Olivia in season 2), Walternate, The pursuits of William Bell (Manifesto--body snatching--shapeshifters) and by extentsion another version of Peter and/or First People who brought the machine back in time, dismantled it, so that it could be found and unearthed yet again and used by the new Peter.

The whole first three seasons played toward 'the loss of Peter Bishop', preparing Walter for Peter's death, as his birth seemingly in every time line has been "a mistake".

But to further complicate the sanario September states that Henry Bishop, Peter's son, is now also seen as "a mistake" and suggests that Peter's decision with the machine(s) lead to Henry's inhalation...

However again the debate of weather that timeline still exists 'out there' is left open to the audience. --But September didn't say as much, only for Peter to "go home"...and the problem is "home" is strange context in these situations....Home, the house you grew up in, home, the place you were born, home, where your heart is...

But I still think that if this timeline where "home", then Peter wouldn't be causing some of these time displacement --bringing 'the future' forward (or back)...back I also can't deny this phrase, "If you can dream a better world, you can make a better world."

Ultimately though I'm still thinking that his timeline is out there and what September says really doesn't mean too much...It would make more sense if Olivia was getting our Olivia's memories because our Olivia is trying to find Peter and help him get home...

Going back to the conundrum of Peter and Henry Bishop, it almost seems like a process of elimination in Bishop lineage that concerns the Observers...and the only thing I can think of that would make any sense is that in the future of some already existing timeline, perhaps the one where humanity starts to mutate/genetically modify into the Observers, is the one responsible for 'the end of all things' (and the beginnings of others?) is a Bishop scientist, and the Observers are trying to fight the outcomes by trying to eliminate Bishop ascendance-decendants????

But September also says Peter is important...and I think it goes beyond the sacrifice and life exchange of August and the future of Christine Hollis...Peter can use the machines--and like I said before, I think a lot of the Fringe cases play on the Observers own evolution and Peter and his abilities with the machine might be one BIG step in the creation and/or alteration to time lines...So maybe it the buck does stop with his own existence, as perhaps he too was once a genetically modified human being...

I still don't know what's going on with the other Nina Sharp. I just have this feeling that these humanoid shapeshifters are becoming more and more evolved...and either they killed the doppleganger of Nina Sharp and stole her identity and then used that to pretend to be Nina (which reminds me of the Olivia situation from season 3) and/or this one doesn't need to kill to take on the looks of someone else...But which ever it is, Jones seems to have gone to a lot of trouble for his plans and we can finally see where Jones might have gone if he were never killed...(and I can't see how the Observers think that's ok) It is wonderful to see him in so many episodes!

The only place I can see us going thinking of 'the end of Dayers' is either other time periods, or a temporal war where some people from somewhere will follow Peter across the universes, across iterations of the time line.
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby Darque on Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:22 pm

FYI the second promo for 4x13 A Short Story about Love is backwards.
Here is the post where I linked the video reversed and you can hear Peter saying " I have tried everything that I can think of..." at the end.

http://www.spoilertv.com/2012/02/fringe ... ut_25.html
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