[Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:24 pm

Darque wrote:FYI the second promo for 4x13 A Short Story about Love is backwards.
Here is the post where I linked the video reversed and you can hear Peter saying " I have tried everything that I can think of..." at the end.

http://www.spoilertv.com/2012/02/fringe ... ut_25.html


Thanks! --Warning Guys there are MAGOR spoilerish images here!

-------------

I am working some these idea from another perspective in terms of the universes...seven stages of death (different planes of existence)

When I have a better understanding of how about to put the idea together. I will post a theory... :P
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Love does not exist for them. They are incapable of dreaming,
Of contemplating beauty, Of knowing something greater than themselves.
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby WJames on Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:41 am

The End Of All Things at The Beginning Of Time

Anyway, I just spent an hour writing a massive, MASSIVE post when my opera crashed and it went poof. :cry: :cry:
so short summary:

FRINGE IS AWESOME!!!

Three things:
1. Observers are human scientists from future!Simple yet nice. :thumbup:
2. Blair Brown and Michael Cerveris were brilliant!
3. There was a comment on the main page that I kind of think will pan out to be true, that said when Spetember told Olivia she had to die, he really meant AmberOlivia's memories, that she'll loose all that defined her in this timeline and totally convert to blueOlivia.


THE OBSERVER: I'm sorry for disturbing you. It was important. You are important. It was why I could not allow you to drown at the bottom of Reiden Lake, why it was necessary to allow the other Dr. Bishop to cure you instead. Despite my efforts to set things right, these actions only culminated in further corruption of the timeline. The war between the two universes drastically altered destinies and brought about a child that was not meant to be.

PETER: What child?

THE OBSERVER: Your son... Henry.

PETER: My what?

THE OBSERVER: He was born to the wrong Olivia Dunham due to a series of circumstances that never should have happened. This event... would have irrevocably altered everything that was to come.

PETER: Henry. I have a son.

THE OBSERVER: Had. When you made the sacrifice to step into that machine, you were not the only one who ceased to exist. So would he. I believed at the time that would be the end of it. I cannot explain, but it is clear that I was wrong. You have managed to return in physical form. I suspect... This will provide an opportunity for you to put things right. She is the one... The Olivia Dunham from whom your shared future was meant to spring. This must be, and everything will be as it was intended. You must find a way... they are coming.


10/10 MAGNIFICENT!



You are the hole in my head
You are the space in my bed
You are the silence in between
What I thought and what I said

You are the night-time fear
You are the morning when it's clear
When it's over your start

You're my head
You're my heart

No light, no light in your bright blue eyes
I never knew daylight could be so violent
A revelation in the light of day

You can't choose what stays and what fades away
And I'd do anything to make you stay

No light, no light
No light

Tell me what you want me to say
Through the crowd I was
Crying out and
In your place there were a thousand other faces

I was disappearing in plain sight
Heaven help me
I need to make it right
You want a revelation
You want to get right
But it's a conversation
I just can't have tonight

You want a revelation
Some kind of resolution
You are the revelation

No light, no light in your bright blue eyes
I never knew daylight could be so violent
A revelation in the light of day

You can't choose what stays and what fades away
And I'd do anything to make you stay.


Poor Olivia.
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby JacobsMom on Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:32 am

"The End of All Things"

It was an interesting episode and the reveal of who/what the Observers are wasn't that dramatic, imo. I'm not disappointed though and it seems to follow what tptb having been saying all along. These guys/scientists from the future are moving through space and time observing the past, present and future of everyone. That said, I think September made it pretty clear that Peter needs to finish up helping this Olivia find her own way before he at last can "go home" to Our Olivia. It sounded to me as though Peter ended up in this universe for a reason and now he needs to "fix" this universe before he can go home to his own.

The biggest surprise in the episode had to be which Nina is which!! :lol: I sort of decided that Jones brought along "this Nina" to help him get the cortexiphan from MD without anyone realizing it wasn't the regular Nina. Wow, is that confusing or what!! Anyway, the two of them put on a pretty good show for Olivia but I loved the fact that she immediately figured out that "this Nina" was a fake all along. Too bad "this Nina" didn't do her homework on Olivia's home life with the NIna she grew up with. I still can't figure out why the regular Nina wasn't cooperating with Broyles and Lincoln though?? Shouldn't she at least tried to help them instead of talking to her lawyer? One thing we learned is that the regular Nina didn't sound like a very good step mother to Olivia and Rachel. Making Olivia call her Miss Sharp until Olivia was out of high school was pretty creepy, imo. At this point I'm thinking that maybe neither one is a shape shifter and Jones needed her double to help him complete his mission.

My favorite scene had to be when Olivia let loose with Peter finally there. I really had to laugh at Jones when he realized she wasn't going to stop before things got out of hand! Then we see the other NIna grab him and make a run for it! :lol: Be careful what you ask for Mr. Jones.... ;) I also was beginning to think that Olivia was going to die after that happened and then she finally recovers enough for Peter to blurt out he was wrong to pretend she was "his Olivia". That may not have been the right time to say that with the way she was feeling after her little light show inside. I don't think he will be able to just walk away either because I think he still has something to do over here before he finally gets to "go home".

Fun stuff:
Did anyone else think that the young Observer on the steps looks a lot like the young, bald boy from an earlier episode?
Walters' butter and sugar sprinkle sandwich! :lol:
The cool way that September appeared and then disappeared from the lab.
Walter lists September on the machine as Mr. X :hmm:
Jones man, Leland, looked an awful lot like a younger William Bell, imo.
Peter head butts that guy in the hallway! :thumbup:
Jones grinning as Olivia shoots him expecting him to be killed and then walks on through!

Good lines:
"We are one of the countless possible futures for humanity." September
"They are coming." September
"There are fringe benefits of being reassembled on an atomic level." Jones
"I have to go home." Peter to Olivia

I do have one gripe and it bothered me a little last week and then I hear it again this week! Last week we had to hear how Olivia had to "pee" and then this week it's Astrid! :thumbsdown: Sorry. I just think it's a stupid throw a way line for the viewers to hear. I enjoy the fun lines we get on Fringe but this seems sort of below par for the writers on Fringe, imo.
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:16 am

^

Jones man, Leland, looked an awful lot like a young William Bell, imo.


I totally thought so too and wondered if it was intentional? --I think William Bell is his own mystery since in our time line he really believed in "a war" between the universes and it seems like it was his manefesto that pushed for a lot of things that came...and can't help to think that he is one of many important scientists a part of human evolution to observers.

As to Mr X --I do think September's "Mr. X" name does relate to a macro cosmic aspect that the Observers may "mark" death onto people and/or the time lines, but also can represent a variable eXchange in regards to giving others a future (August-Christine Hollis), but in the more micro-cosmic, I think we still have to worry about the fate of 'this' Olivia...and I am still hoping there is home to go to, despite the fact that these "red" Bishops are referred to as "mistakes"...

I think it's VERY possible the child observer could be the the third young observer on the steps, even though I still hope that it was September as child... if human's evolved to their state, and IF cortexifan plays a role in that evolution, then child Observers may be able to reality travel to any given time line, and like young cortexifan users, not always control the ability. --But perhaps they even reincarnate...I am not sure death of the Observers is final state if their existence, as it seems like it is not with 'early' humanity either (in fringe mythos anyways), as William Bell proved that us last season...
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:12 pm

WJames!

I think to some degree I may be wrong about what's happening here...and you're idea might be more accurate. :)

The Day We Died no doubt gives us CCC (Penrose Confromal Cycle Cosmology) in terms of the histories of the universes being apart of what has repeatedly happened by means of black hole time traveling, but it's not the only part.

I updated "The Relativity of Nina Sharp" thread, because "A Long List of Lovers" and "Hovercraft Mother"(Violet Sedan Chair) song lyrics gave me an epiphany! The machine causes a "snow globe" effect in which it just re--arranges all the matter in the time line(s) ("Slow Vibration" also gives a hint)

Now what I don't understand is the time displacement effects of elimination (peter-henry) verses recreation (peter)....or if it's still in the processes of rearranging. (aka the snow flakes are still falling), or if the old reality still exists as it is still apart of the history prior to the rearrangement???...but It's clear what happened in other time lines is still harboring a course correction despite this effect...I don't know if Peter can keep rearranging it, or why the Observers wanted Peter/Machine users to re-create a time line with out Peter and Henry. --Who would have Henry Been??? -And does the buck really stop with them??

The issue could be that "the snow globe effect" might still be "with in" the time loops and has become an event in itself that despite the rearrangements of things still comes to same horrible conclusions as was shown to us "In The Day We Died"...It seems like it's a method to stop the creation of black holes and taking the machines back, but that they may have used this method also infinite times already and not be able to stop Olivia from dying, or black holes being created. Perhaps it's also leading to yet another method of prevention?

I am now thinking that Nina's doppleganger was killed by a shapeshifter and assumed her identity, but I also think from the 'hovercraft mother' aspect of "The Long List of Lovers" song, may also refer to Mr. X--and the zeppelin as a zeppelin is a "hovercraft"...marking DEATH on Olivia. I purpose that The Nina Shapeshifter is MR. X and he will change his appearance in the upcoming (grrr why do e have to wait so long!) episodes!

And it almost seems like Fringe has a lot more with Peter escaping death, then Olivia dying... :hmm:

---------------
There's A NEW PROMO POSTER that has surfaced and it features something we were talking about in terms of time lines and TREES, WJames ;)

and it also reminds me of "Twin Trees", Darque :w00t:

But more importantly I think they stole the idea from a cover of one of my all time favorite bands, Kula Shaker, Peasants, Pigs, and Astronauts...

Image

The Original Album Cover:
Image

The 1oth Anniversary - Seasonal Change
Image

Here's a couple of my favorite songs from the Album that really goes along with FRINGE

Time Worm:


Shower Your Love:
Last edited by DarthLocke on Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby Xindilini on Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:46 pm

September's explanation was indeed quite revealing.

Fact:
Peter pulled himself out of existence.
September did not save the drowning Peter.

We are told that was not how things should have ended.
Had September not prevented Peter's father from discovering the cure that would save his life, Peter would surely have grown up in the red universe, and would not necessarily met Olivia Dunham over there.

September believes Peter can fix the universe by falling for Olivia, any version in the blue universe. That could only happen if he saved Peter.

A question comes to mind.
When Peter does find love with Olivia, are they destine to have a son? (The event that was not meant to be.)
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby WJames on Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:46 pm

DarthLocke wrote:WJames!

I think to some degree I may be wrong about what's happening here...and you're idea might be more accurate. :)

We'll see, I'm sure the answers are coming, yeah, and I could still be wrong. But I don't think they would spent an entire season establishing this universe and these characters just so Peter could conveniently hop in the machine and magically re-appear at the end of 3x22's events.

DarthLocke wrote:Now what I don't understand is the time displacement effects of elimination (peter-henry) verses recreation (peter)....or if it's still in the processes of rearranging. (aka the snow flakes are still falling), or if the old reality still exists as it is still apart of the history prior to the rearrangement???...but It's clear what happened in other time lines is still harboring a course correction despite this effect...I don't know if Peter can keep rearranging it, or why the Observers wanted Peter/Machine users to re-create a time line with out Peter and Henry. --Who would have Henry Been??? -And does the buck really stop with them??


I spent an hour and a half yesterday writing my thoughts on the Observers in the light of the new information and I was mad as hell when my browser crashed for no apparent reason. :cursing: :cursing: :cursing:
Anyhow what it all came down to was their mission. It's not hard to imagine, considering human kinds insatiable curiosity, that indeed in the future where technology allows them to, they chose to witness important events in history first hand, thinking that they would be careful enough not to change anything. *We saw how that turned out* But that whole thesis "we observe for the fun of it" stands on shaky ground. Would those people who are so highly evolved both biologically and technologically really risk altering history just so they could observe? I would actually like that Fringe goes more in the direction of one of my favorite movies "12 Monkeys" ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114746/ ) where scientists sent men back in time to prevent a virus wiping out most of humanity. It would make more sense if in fact The Observers of Time were actually a scientific team designed not just to observe human history but to alter something in the past so they could save the humanity of the future. Regardless of that theory, the question remains where does Peter fit in? He is IMPORTANT as the observer with code designation September pointed out, but why did they want to erase all traces of him from time? I get that having Henry with red Olive is multiverse shattering so that version of the poor bugger has to stay erased but I would presume that they would want the right Henry to be born (red Peter+blue Olivia), so how come they wanted to erase Peter completely???


DarthLocke wrote:The issue could be that "the snow globe effect" might still be "with in" the time loops and has become an event in itself that despite the rearrangements of things still comes to same horrible conclusions as was shown to us "In The Day We Died"...It seems like it's a method to stop the creation of black holes and taking the machines back, but that they may have used this method also infinite times already and not be able to stop Olivia from dying, or black holes being created. Perhaps it's also leading to yet another method of prevention?

I am now thinking that Nina's doppleganger was killed by a shapeshifter and assumed her identity, but I also think from the 'hovercraft mother' aspect of "The Long List of Lovers" song, may also refer to Mr. X--and the zeppelin as a zeppelin is a "hovercraft"...marking DEATH on Olivia. I purpose that The Nina Shapeshifter is MR. X and he will change his appearance in the upcoming (grrr why do e have to wait so long!) episodes!


Could be, could be, I like that, but it seemed to me that Pinker and Wyman subtly dismissed "Nina shapeshifter" theory in one of the last interviews:

THR: Now that we know there are two Nina Sharps in our midst. Will the "how" be uncovered?

Pinkner: Without answering it directly, if it were a shape shifter, someone would have to die. So you can't have two Ninas if one of them is a shape shifter. It's part of the mystery, but at the same time, we've established that David Robert Jones can pretty much cross over pretty much at will now.


One of the theories I proposed in my deleted post yesterday, was that the identity of Mr. X does not equate with September directly, but to all of the Observers. They are sort of "the X entity" in all known timelines, a virus that body fights or in this case, that Multiverse tries to course correct. They are directly to blame for the mess that happened and me thinks that the Multiverse's weapon of choice is Peter, it preserved him and made him into an unknown variable to the Observers! This line from September:

I suspect... This will provide an opportunity for you to put things right. She is the one... The Olivia Dunham from whom your shared future was meant to spring. This must be, and everything will be as it was intended. You must find a way... they are coming.

... makes me think that he can no longer see any possible future for Peter, so he speculates that Peter will be able to prevent Olivia's death and have baby red/blue Henry with her. I wonder who were they, the Observers or RDJ's henchmen coming for Peter in his house?


Xindilini wrote:Had September not prevented Peter's father from discovering the cure that would save his life, Peter would surely have grown up in the red universe, and would not necessarily met Olivia Dunham over there.

September believes Peter can fix the universe by falling for Olivia, any version in the blue universe. That could only happen if he saved Peter.

A question comes to mind.
When Peter does find love with Olivia, are they destine to have a son? (The event that was not meant to be.)

What I took from it is that in the ORIGINAL timeline red Peter somehow crosses to blue universe and meets blue Olivia and falls for her, without all the implications that Observers actions cause, the war and so on.. and the Polivia shipper in me likes to believe that indeed red Peter and blue Olive are destined to have multicolored Henry. :lol:
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:10 am

^I don't think they dismissed the shapeshifter theory, just that thee alternate Nina that is the counter part to our blue Nina, can not be a shapeshifter by saying that shapeshifters still need to kill to transform, but they did not say that in this time line that another Nina couldn't have existed, which could then mean either she is what would be the equivalent to the red counter part, or the shapeshifter killed that counter part and took her identity so that Jones could get to MD, Olivia, and cortexifan.

I am sorry your computer crashed. It happens to me a lot! :cursing:

I agree that Peter could be the Observers weapon. In a lot of ways it makes sense, but like August, so far it was only September who believes that Peter and Olivia should have a future still...the Others went after September...we can only assume that the rest of them still view Peter as a "mistake" and this should not have a future...

I agree that the Observers job since they are a homosapien branch off and "scientist" must also be working towards some goal, other than just collecting data, unless they are collecting data on behalf someone specific. We also learned that their names are actually "code names" and suggests they may also be "agents", and thus suggesting an "agancey" to work on behalf of.....I think that's why the reveal of Henry being a "mistake" is also curious, because it suggest that he or the continues of his blood line must lead to a disaster...maybe even their own creation?!
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby Xindilini on Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:18 pm

WJames wrote:
... makes me think that he can no longer see any possible future for Peter, so he speculates that Peter will be able to prevent Olivia's death and have baby red/blue Henry with her. I wonder who were they, the Observers or RDJ's henchmen coming for Peter in his house?


About that. The Observers still seem like a design of man rather than an evolutionary offshoot of humanity. Could they even be the final iteration of shapeshifters? They seem to embody the abilities that human beings have lost over years of evolution, and what fringe science we see has been trying to achieve.
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:40 pm

Xindilini wrote:
WJames wrote:
... makes me think that he can no longer see any possible future for Peter, so he speculates that Peter will be able to prevent Olivia's death and have baby red/blue Henry with her. I wonder who were they, the Observers or RDJ's henchmen coming for Peter in his house?


About that. The Observers still seem like a design of man rather than an evolutionary offshoot of humanity. Could they even be the final iteration of shapeshifters? They seem to embody the abilities that human beings have lost over years of evolution, and what fringe science we see has been trying to achieve.



September's wording did suggest they were 'the future of humanity', so really, it's the same difference...just like how cylons are re-engineered humans in BSG mythos ("children of humanity")...whether man genetically modified human progress or it's natural progress, it's still an evolutionary process, especially when one can argue whether or not humanity is natural or not, apart of evolution or not---IMO that is the point of saying Henry and/or Peter are "mistakes", because it reflects an attitude that humans are a mistake (existentialism), because of the things they/we create, including then Observers.

That is why I believe the Observers can act as substitute variables and the plot of saving everything may revolve around their choice of sacrifice so that other's can have a better future (Christine Hollis-Olivia)... because they are from humanity and therefor still sentinel beings...it's still about THEIR BELIEFS in conjunction to their awareness, just as it is to humanity. ("The Firefly" -September expresses limitation in NOT knowing what future will come to pass--because like always, there are too many variables that can create something new and unpredictable)

But I also think there is an argument about what death is in the Fringe universe and if it is not also "transformation" and not the end of anything...
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby supermodel on Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:11 pm

I thought this was a pretty good episode, and I am glad we got some movement on this Peter/Olivia thing. I agree with whoever said that we haven't spent an entire season in the amber universe just for Peter to leave. But likewise, I think we didn't spend three years watching Peter and Blue Olivia grow closer not to see him struggle to get back to her.

JacobsMom wrote:
Anyway, the two [Ninas] put on a pretty good show for Olivia but I loved the fact that she immediately figured out that "this Nina" was a fake all along. Too bad "this Nina" didn't do her homework on Olivia's home life with the Nina she grew up with. I still can't figure out why the regular Nina wasn't cooperating with Broyles and Lincoln though??
I’m still confused about Broyles and whether or not we think he is a shapeshifter too. Remember several weeks ago he appeared to be collaborating with Jones? So maybe Nina is not dealing with him because she is suspicious?

Xindilini wrote:
Had September not prevented Peter's father from discovering the cure that would save his life, Peter would surely have grown up in the red universe, and would not necessarily met Olivia Dunham over there.

September believes Peter can fix the universe by falling for Olivia, any version in the blue universe. That could only happen if he saved Peter.

This is hurting my brain. September says that Henry was born to the wrong Olivia. But Xindilini is right, if Walternate had saved Peter, he would have lived in the red universe, so it seems that he would be more likely to meet the red Olivia. So how was Peter’s child fated to be born to the blue Olivia? Or was Henry never supposed to exist, period?

WJames wrote:
Would those people who are so highly evolved both biologically and technologically really risk altering history just so they could observe?
Tell me about it. In high school physics we all learned the observer effect – the very act of observing has an effect on the phenomenon being observed. How can these people have mastered quantum mechanics and yet forget that basic principle?

JacobsMom wrote:
Walters' butter and sugar sprinkle sandwich!
This made me laugh so hard. I have actually seen this before, it was served to me daily when I visited northern Indonesia. Apparently it is a Dutch thing that was imported to Indonesia during the colonial period. Not sure why Walter was eating it, is he Dutch?
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:21 pm

^ I think you hit a great point Supermodel about Observer Effect...I think they MUST know they effect just by Observing...that's why I think it is this effect that potentially save and destroys everything....even in his last horrah, September may be influencing Peter intentionally knowing something we and Peter don't. I don't think he gave Peter much reassurance about anything...

And you made a good point about Peter too. I am assuming September believes that Peter and [blue] Olivia should have a son (perhaps another version of Henry), but again it leads me to believe that a red Henry must lead to something bad...

In "The Day We Died" that future showed us an Olivia who never came to have a child with Peter, because she never felt that the world was safe enough...But Peter started to make her reconsider and then Walternate kills her!
It makes me think that the fate in the universe for them to have a family has been plagued for a long time by fate and the looming role of an "X" variable that keeps killing Olivia...

It just seems like it's more complicated than September's understanding, or rather what September told Peter... :hmm:
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby Darque on Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:34 am

Here's a very interesting article with Blair Brown about her alternate Meana Sharp and her upcoming story line when FRINGE returns!
http://www.examiner.com/tv-insider-in-l ... all-things

The bit about Meana sacrificing her arm to fit the role is intriguing to me. Also the bit about her and Jones having history. I wonder how much history original flavored Nina had with DRJ.... and how "good" our Nina was.

So interested for the next episode it is not even funny... or humane! 4 weeks... UGH!
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby WJames on Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:28 pm

DarthLocke wrote:I agree that Peter could be the Observers weapon. In a lot of ways it makes sense, but like August, so far it was only September who believes that Peter and Olivia should have a future still...the Others went after September...we can only assume that the rest of them still view Peter as a "mistake" and this should not have a future...

I think you misunderstood me here a little. I meant that Peter is a tool the Universe uses to deal with the Observers. They are the ones causing the damage and they are doing it on purpose. Because like Supermodel said:
In high school physics we all learned the observer effect – the very act of observing has an effect on the phenomenon being observed. How can these people have mastered quantum mechanics and yet forget that basic principle?

So my theory is that they are the "X" entity, the ones that mess things up and are possibly involved with Olivia dying. So the Universe uses Peter who no longer has any possible future written for him (I mean he does, but the Observers can't see any of his possible futures) because he erased himself. O.o

DarthLocke wrote:September's wording did suggest they were 'the future of humanity', so really, it's the same difference...just like how cylons are re-engineered humans in BSG mythos ("children of humanity")...whether man genetically modified human progress or it's natural progress, it's still an evolutionary process, especially when one can argue whether or not humanity is natural or not, apart of evolution or not---IMO that is the point of saying Henry and/or Peter are "mistakes", because it reflects an attitude that humans are a mistake (existentialism), because of the things they/we create, including then Observers.

That is why I believe the Observers can act as substitute variables and the plot of saving everything may revolve around their choice of sacrifice so that other's can have a better future (Christine Hollis-Olivia)... because they are from humanity and therefor still sentinel beings...it's still about THEIR BELIEFS in conjunction to their awareness, just as it is to humanity. ("The Firefly" -September expresses limitation in NOT knowing what future will come to pass--because like always, there are too many variables that can create something new and unpredictable)

But I also think there is an argument about what death is in the Fringe universe and if it is not also "transformation" and not the end of anything...


I agree. We'll see how September's sacrifice resolves and what is the Observers true purpose or ultimate goal...
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:45 pm

^ I agree the Observers are the problem, but I don't think they always were. I think it's one of those things where one creates a cure for sickness which sometimes includes a modification to the virus itself, but eventually either everything becomes immune, or the rna manifests to get around the cure, or the cure causes a new sickness...I think we could go down the 'cost of living' path in terms of quality verses quantity. I don't think the role of the Observers was intentionally malicious, but their existences completely changed reality. I think Peter can fight against them, but I also think it's a double wammy too since, The Observers are the one's who brought the prophecy of Peter and the machine, "the palimpsest", to Olivia's attention in the season two finale....They also were there when Henry was born and September says, "It has begun"....they wanted to lead Peter to his and Henry's demise, but clearly his existences, his and Olivia's love out-quantifies them...and makes me think the the original first people must also be their makers...but I think they plague death on everyone-the whole existence of humanity and not just Olivia, but FOR PETER his role of saving everyone coincides with saving Olivia(s).
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Yet for all their evolution, they form no bonds.
Love does not exist for them. They are incapable of dreaming,
Of contemplating beauty, Of knowing something greater than themselves.
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