[Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby Howey on Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:54 pm

Now I know why some viewers of LOST were lost.
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:49 pm

Howey wrote:Now I know why some viewers of LOST were lost.

:lol:

Just had another thought about the shapeshifters...If I were right in that they are one big part of the evolutionary process that leads to the Observers, then perhaps somewhere, down the line, shapeshifters have to be able to 'reality' travel. In the season 1-3 timeline we know they could be teleported in little organic pods and birthed ...but this was very limiting. We know now that this Jones and shapeshifter can travel through the parallel universes with the portal devise at ease and we learned that activating Olivia, seeing the properties of cortixifan, has to do with something else other than just traveling between the parallel universes and it reasonally could be argued that we are on the verge of what The End of Dayers did in creating black holes in order to go to various time periods in the time line...What if Jones shapeshifters can already do this with out the black holes--use cortexifan? --If they can go to the past or future? --they might be able to kill 'other versions' of the characters to assume their identity---This would also explain the time displacement issues of the season, because the shapeshifters stealing identities by time traveling might be able to help them create some specific outcome, working things out like a rubix cube---being able to access futuristic information??? :hmm:

One other thing I could never figure out is what was going on with Newton and Walternate in the woods of "The Northwest Passage" --They were there and then they weren't there! -I never figured out HOW Walternate crossed to retrieve Peter and how Peter actually got over there? --I assume there is some sort of time-slip thing, but it was never explained....it kind of reminds me of "Welcome to Westfield" and "Momentum Deferred" things that seem like they would be relative "here". :S
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby WJames on Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:58 pm

Howey wrote:Now I know why some viewers of LOST were lost.

Why?

...

I realized none of us mentioned R.D. Jones being Undead or some other unholy being! Why didn't he die?
"...benefits to having one's body reassemble at an atomic level" - So he is invulnerable to physical damage now?
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:18 pm

WJames wrote:
Howey wrote:Now I know why some viewers of LOST were lost.

Why?

...

I realized none of us mentioned R.D. Jones being Undead or some other unholy being! Why didn't he die?
"...benefits to having one's body reassemble at an atomic level" - So he is invulnerable to physical damage now?


That's an interesting statement to say the least, especially since that this is might be what Peter's machine has done to this timeline begin with, but on a microcosmic level, I think you must be right. :thumbsup: -- Jones must have a type of sub atomic regenerater of sorts...
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby supermodel on Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:38 pm

If the Observers live in a cave with magic glowing water, I will smash all my DVDs.
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby JacobsMom on Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:04 am

Darque wrote:Here's a very interesting article with Blair Brown about her alternate Meana Sharp and her upcoming story line when FRINGE returns!
http://www.examiner.com/tv-insider-in-l ... all-things

The bit about Meana sacrificing her arm to fit the role is intriguing to me. Also the bit about her and Jones having history. I wonder how much history original flavored Nina had with DRJ.... and how "good" our Nina was.

So interested for the next episode it is not even funny... or humane! 4 weeks... UGH!


Thanks for posting this great interview with B.B. Darque! I always enjoy her interviews. :D

Thank goodness we have a new name for the other Nina at last...Meana :lol:

I agree that there are so many new possibilities with all these characters and how/what they are all up to. One mystery still out there for me is what the relationship really is between DRJ and Broyles?? :unsure: I'm also excited about how the story line of these shape shifters will play out as this season comes to an end.
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:43 am

supermodel wrote:If the Observers live in a cave with magic glowing water, I will smash all my DVDs.


I think it's pretty clear that they don't, I doubt any future where man creates them wouldn't be a metropolis, at least I hope they wouldn't repeat that (all though there is another magical Island in the comic "Peter and the Machine"), but I think among us, but not one of us could still apply to the series...

I know magic water generally sounds ridiculous, but since the beginning of time humanity has believed in such a substance...a spring of life, a fountain of youth, a liquid substance to preserve ourselves. Water is often associated with purity and is one of most, if not the most important components in evolution in being able to sustain life....It's not like there was no science involved either...the Orchid hints at exotic matter (black matter?), a cryogenic chamber, and cold fusion. We know Dharma unearthed and created electromagnetic pockets...The Island was a multi-faceted time machine that just so happened to ooze a liquid related to the creation of life and thus represents the promise of hope and "second chances"... Our waters are becoming so polluted, but I think we take for granted just how important water is to us.

I am still with Clarke's three laws:
1.When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.
2.The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
3. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Magic is a term for that in which we have yet to understand. Imagine taking something in our every day like an air plane, engineers and pilots back to 100 BCE Rome---to them this metal flying bird is "magic".
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby supermodel on Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:03 pm

So clearly I should put a smiley face after anything said in jest.
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:33 pm

supermodel wrote:So clearly I should put a smiley face after anything said in jest.


Ha. :blush: My Bad. I wasn't sure how serious you were. A lot of people do feel exactly like you stated. The idea of magic water did put a lot of people off. They couldn't see the anthropological bend in it, they couldn't relate to the idea of it. But I am glad to know you were being jest. :) --It's hard to tell sometimes when someone is joking around or not just from reading text. So I apologize.
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby Howey on Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:23 am

supermodel wrote:If the Observers live in a cave with magic glowing water, I will smash all my DVDs.


Hah! I'll bet when it ends everybody but Peter is dead and they all meet in a church. :D

WJames wrote:
Howey wrote:Now I know why some viewers of LOST were lost.

Why?
?


It was hard enough keeping up with two dimensions. Now there's three? I can't figure out which is which, who is who. At least when we visited the alt reality on LOST when someone would show up there would be an AHA! moment.

With Fringe my index finger gets sore rewinding trying to see what the heck I missed.
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:33 am

Howey wrote:
supermodel wrote:If the Observers live in a cave with magic glowing water, I will smash all my DVDs.


Hah! I'll bet when it ends everybody but Peter is dead and they all meet in a church. :D

WJames wrote:
Howey wrote:Now I know why some viewers of LOST were lost.

Why?
?


It was hard enough keeping up with two dimensions. Now there's three? I can't figure out which is which, who is who. At least when we visited the alt reality on LOST when someone would show up there would be an AHA! moment.

With Fringe my index finger gets sore rewinding trying to see what the heck I missed.



Yeah the idea of having sets of parallel universes that have iterations and rearrangements is rather insane :lol: --Way more insane that just one time line that keeps looping/branching off + a flashsideways plane. :rofl:

But I am still curious as what the final notes will be, because I can't help to think they are dancing around "death" and esoteric thought again -And also the title sequence this season also includes the phrase "ethereal plane"...suggesting the Neo-Theosophy idea of multiple planes of existences, and or sub levels of reality or the divine plane, and/or sometimes stages of death/life....
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby supermodel on Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:22 pm

Not sure where is the best place to post this. New video released at WonderCon, a compilation of the best Walterisms.

http://www.tv.com/news/get-ready-for-fr ... deo-28137/
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:52 pm

Well, I'm assuming we are to continue on using this thread!

"A Short Story About Love".

Well, even though for all intended purposes Peter is with "his" Olivia and where he's suppose to be, I found it strange that September really didn't try to explain it...I hope we get a little bit more of an explanation as to what kind of universe this is, verses what was intended.

But the bigger news: Observers don't seem to die, they just get locked out of certain universes! ---Which goes back to what I am saying about all of this...was Peter suppose to be locked out of certain "Olivia" pertaining/relative universes, but their LOVE defied it all?!

And the beacon can do great great things---and might be a key to suggesting that there are more universes that might become important, universes/realities/time periods that Peter, Olivia, and Walter are locked out of...and this may begin what was going on with John Mosley (The Arrival)...I keep thinking that there is a temporal cold war going on this whole time...and John attempt to get the beacon was trying to get somewhere/when specific...or trying to bring another locked out Observer back?

On another note, Anson Carr was a creepy villain and his methods were absolutely disturbing. His distorted face reminded me of both John Scott and season one version of David Robert Jones!

I have to say I felt really bad for Lincoln Lee...I hope one of them can be with the red Olivia at least.

At the end of the episode I got all teary eyed. It was nice to see P and O together again!


----------------------------

Rethinking....

So a new Beyond the Fringe comic came out and it's the first of a two part story about Nina and her arm titled, "Ghost Writer" -The Synopsis of pt1: "When Nina Sharps Arm appears to be acting on it's own, it may have a connection to experiments conducted by Walter Bishop and William Bell back in the 1970's."

I haven't been able to purchase it yet, but I find it important because I think it may continue to play on multiple universes and the beacon.

I kept thinking back to "Brown Betty" since it mentions the beacon and this one line always stood out to me:

FICTIONAL PETER: We have to get my heart back. Those men who attacked us, they work for Nina Sharp.
FICTIONAL OLIVIA: But Nina Sharp isn't the one who's got your heart.
FICTIONAL PETER: Then who does?


And:

FICTIONAL OLIVIA: The device -- the one that came through the wall -- I knew that I had seen it someplace before. You brought Nina Sharp's Watchers to your side. Didn't you?


Between this text, John Mosley and his frequency-related hat, which goes with "The Equation" (green, green, green, red flashes = Frequency = speed at which things travel/time travel/time lapse = measurement of evolution, which "speeding up time" was jokingly mentioned being patient by Massive Dynamic/Nina in "A Short Story About Love", in addition an 'equation' is described by need to balance universes in season 3 and "Peter and the Machine"), I really think a temporal cold war has been going on and the Observers are trying to limit it some how by being able to lock (and unlock?) universes...

In fact the whole episode parallels season four with Nina and Meana in so many ways...from Olivia calling Nina, "Ma" to her (meana) using Olivia to find Peter Bishop and claiming he is "dangerous".

and this:

FICTIONAL OLIVIA: Oh, so you're gonna send me somewhere far away, where I won't be able to tell anybody what you wanna do with that glass heart?
FICTIONAL NINA: Not quite. Go ahead Mister Gemini.
FICTIONAL OLIVIA: (as the man drags her to a wood crate and seals her in) No, no! No, no, no! (as he nails it shut) Ah. Ah! No! (as the crate is tossed into the water, then begins to fill) Help me! No! Ah!
FICTIONAL PETER: (as he retrieves the crate and frees her) I heard you were looking for me.
FICTIONAL OLIVIA: (after climbing into his raft. exasperated) Thank you.


The idea of "locking" a universe and separating people from each other by placing them in other time lines, or states of existences is like this metaphor of putting one in a box and sealing it!


Additionally I always felt Massive Dynamics might not only have hinted to us about multiple universes, but perhaps "doors" are there to get them. When we think about "Momentum Deferred" we can see how that might be the case, since William Bell uses Massive Dynamics elevator as means to slip Olivia to the red universe...

Also Olivia has an astral projected-like experience while waiting for Nina Sharp at MD in "The Same Old Story", which ends up reflecting the idea that Olivia is connected and can become aware of experiences of 'other Olivias', in this case with the future of her red counter part.

I also could NEVER figure out what was going on in "Northwest Passage"...how Newton and Walternate could appear in the woods to Peter, but no one else saw them-there was no proof of their existence in the woods over here...and then how did Walternate cross and both he and Peter cross back???

Whatever is going on in this version of the time line, I think may reflect and hint that those characters that dance around Massive Dynamic from season one, are still playing some bigger role to open doors to other universes and/or time periods in other universe, let alone that there may be "a massive dynamic" out there that is in charge of the Observers missions....this is the only place where I can see us going that is bigger than what we have.

Nina's comic synopsis also suggest the idea that things can be transferred through time (like the special typewriters and for Lost fans, the idea behind an alternate reality's Daniel Faraday comic con video message that was sent from some "other" 1970's to the show's current 2007...aka I also always argued that Daniel(s)' journals would have potential to be passed along too!)
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby JacobsMom on Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:06 pm

"A Short Story About Love"

Okay, so here's my take on the "big" reveal. This is really our universe but Peter never existed here because he drowned in Reiden Lake like he was suppose to all along. Now things have turned out differently in our time line once again because Peter wasn't around. So.....each of our characters here, and of course in the Red Universe, have all had different outcomes to their lives and we have been seeing all along this season a whole new iteration of our original universe. :whistle: I'm not sure if I'm totally disappointed or not at this point, but I keep feeling like everything we've seen in the last 3 seasons has been lost to the viewers. :unsure: I guess it is just a new twist on the story line but I was kind of hoping for Peter to make some final push to return home to our universe and where we all left off at.

The only way I can see all of this making sense is if all of our characters in our universe get back all those old memories like Olivia is now doing. She is supposedly losing the memories of who she was before Peter popped up again at Reiden Lake. Maybe if that can happen, the episodes of Fringe we've seen these last 3 seasons will be connected back up to where they belong in the story line of our universe that these Observers messed with when they removed young Peter.

The COTW story was weird, imo. We never fully understood why this man lost his love but I guess I just had to assume that he was horribly burned in some lab accident and his girlfriend left him because of that. :S Now he is trying to find love again in the most creepy way possible! :thumbsdown: That first killing with the plastic wrap was really, really disturbing! I also thought that scene of him at his lab where he kills his next male victim was disturbing. He just sits there while this song plays in the background looking at the picture of his lost love. I felt that the scene went on WAY too long since it would have been nice to have some background on this guy. I didn't care about him at this point and was only hoping that the FBI would come in and shoot him! When he finally tells Olivia that she smells of love, I thought it was so creepy! The only thing nice I can say about this killer was at least he had a conscience and wouldn't kill couple with children.

I guess the bit with Peter having that thing in his eye was okay. It lead Peter to finding September and helping him return. I wasn't that interested in September being the one helped but I suppose he will lead us to more info now about what will happen with the other Observers and the problems with the 2 universes. I thought his apartment was pretty cool with it's 1950's vibe. It fits their "uniforms" anyway of the suits/hats/briefcases. The hidden briefcase thing was sort of dorky though.

My favorite scene of the whole episode was with Olivia coming to see Nina at her apartment. That was a very touching scene showing their own true love for each other as daughter and mother, and how it will slowly disappear from Olivia's mind. I wasn't really expecting this since I got the idea that Nina wasn't that great of a mother figure if she made Olivia call her Miss Sharp until she graduated from high school. Another strange twist.... :huh:

It is nice that we have Peter and Olivia back together again but I felt horrible for Lincoln Lee. He sort of reflects this killer who was also shunned in love. Lincoln Lee was brought into these new events, of being a part of the Fringe team, because of Peter not existing this time around. Then he falls for Olivia as she was from before, but now she has quickly changed who she is. I kept wondering during the episode if we will see Lincoln become a "bad guy" himself now or if he will simply be killed off as someone who wasn't suppose to exist here at all?? :hmm:

Fun stuff:
white tulips on the table with Olivia and Nina
"White Rabbit" by Jefferson Airplane playing in the lab
"Scooby Do" television cartoon playing on screen behind Walter in the lab
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:06 pm

^ I am not convinced yet that what September says is "the absolute truth". I think for all intended purposes, this Olivia has become our Olivia and thus makes this place 'home' for Peter. (Home is where your heart is), but this idea about people (since Observers are an extension/advancement of humanity/homosapien) getting locked out of universes, prompts me think that Peter was locked out of his. September is more clearly at odds with the rest of the Observers as well, and for all we know September may need Peter for something, sees Peter's purpose, and maybe feels this time line, whether reconstructed by the machine at certain points or a previous iteration that has now been altered with Peter's presence, may be "safer" for Peter to exist in. Additionally we can argue that this Walter has become more like our Walter since Peter's return, suggesting again the everything may rely on Peter's influence.

On another note Peter once said, "If you can dream a better world, you can make a better world" and perhaps he is recreating his time line with his emotions, but "6B" and this episode suggest it's a team effort with love and quantum entanglement, which suggests to me "somewhere" Olivia had to have been wanting to be with Peter again too, and maybe if that place which holds that Olivia's conscience/memory whether corporeal or innate, was able to project herself onto this Olivia.

With that being said, I still feel really bad for Lincoln Lee, because the lack of Peter and the re-emergence of Peter's placements in the time line lead him to be broken hearted and to some degree I think he is right that this Olivia was basically replaced by ours, because despite whatever September said, the time line is different and these people had new experiences and seem to lead us in a new direction...

I think if there is a temporal war going on, our characters may be "locked out" of universes that might be important to them...and I am very interested to see how this concept is used.

Additionally the next two episode titles are suspicious since they pretty much voice the issues we have about these things...Episode title names in spoiler tags:
Spoiler (Click to reveal/hide)
4x16 "Nothing As It Seems" and 4x17 "Everything In It's Right Place" O.o


Also the next episode harks back to something specific in the first season. I don't want to give it away, but things that consciencly happen in that episode (and probably episodes that lead up to it) along with a new Beyond the Fringe comic ("Ghost Writer Pt1") featuring telekinesis through time and space using Nina's arm, which is kind of like "the pairs" of special advanced type writers, and something that happens in the prequel comic with "two in sync" time machines from different time periods, and like LOST's comic con Alternate Reality Daniel Faraday, who sent video footage from one time line/time period to the shows current iteration/time period, makes me think that Olivia is possibly still out there and she basically sent herself, using the the other Olivia, to find Peter....(ala 'ghost network')
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