[Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby supermodel on Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:20 pm

I thought this episode was pretty bad, I really didn't enjoy it at all.
JacobsMom said:

The COTW story was weird, imo. We never fully understood why this man lost his love but I guess I just had to assume that he was horribly burned in some lab accident and his girlfriend left him because of that. Now he is trying to find love again in the most creepy way possible!


I agree, the bit about him being burned and having lost his love was too vague and pointless anyway. OK, so either she rejected him because of the scars, or maybe she died in the same accident that maimed him. But at the end, when he gave his explanation, it wasn't about trying to recapture love. He said something about trying to give the world a gift, more like he was a mad scientist who thought he was making the world better or something.

I thought the whole thing was stupid and a very lame and transparent allegory for Olivia choosing love over her real life. Or whatever. It just didn't grab me and I just didn't care. And I can't get behind Olivia's decision to forget her real life unless it has consequences beyond just hurting Nina's feelings. There have to be repercussions, because basically she's making it like she no longer exists, and that had real repercussions when it happened to Peter.

I also don't care for the bit with that thing in Peter's eye. It was so deus ex machina, a completely contrived revision of what we saw in the last episode. I am never a fan of plot twists that involve activity that happened offscreen or is even INVISIBLE, but is suddenly explained when Walter orders up some fancy equipment on a moment's notice.

I did kind of like the idea that the Observers are able to lock September out of specific universes, kind of like they locked him out of room where he has no business. And for better or for worse, I appreciate that he told Peter that he's in the original blue universe, albeit a universe that has changed drastically. It makes sense to me that he'd be drawn back to the place he originally existed, and I like having fewer universes to keep track of.
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby supermodel on Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:24 pm

Oh, forgot to post the bad news that this episode was a new series low in terms of ratings. The Hollywood Reporter says
Returning after a month, Fox's cult sci-fi drama posted a series low in the key advertiser-coveted 18-49 demo with a 0.9 rating opposite the NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament, a Grimm repeat, Supernatural and a newsmagazine. Its previous low was a 1.1.

And Deadline is reporting that this was 25% lower than the winter finale.

Granted the show was up against March Madness, a guaranteeed ratings winner, but it lost to everything else, too. This is not a good sign.

When will the networks stop crippling shows with these cosntant mid-season breaks?
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:32 pm

supermodel wrote:Oh, forgot to post the bad news that this episode was a new series low in terms of ratings. The Hollywood Reporter says
Returning after a month, Fox's cult sci-fi drama posted a series low in the key advertiser-coveted 18-49 demo with a 0.9 rating opposite the NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament, a Grimm repeat, Supernatural and a newsmagazine. Its previous low was a 1.1.

And Deadline is reporting that this was 25% lower than the winter finale.

Granted the show was up against March Madness, a guaranteeed ratings winner, but it lost to everything else, too. This is not a good sign.

When will the networks stop crippling shows with these cosntant mid-season breaks?



Alot of people speculate that the opening Hunger Games and Basketball might have played a role...hopefully we go back to more normal (normal for this year) numbers this Friday...
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby supermodel on Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:23 pm

Wow only six posts about this ep, and most of them are me and DL. I guess that says something.
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby JacobsMom on Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:50 pm

supermodel wrote:Wow only six posts about this ep, and most of them are me and DL. I guess that says something.


I think it's that time of the year where everybody is busy and maybe not posting much online. I enjoy reviewing my favorite shows episodes but I don't always get remarks back. People may still be watching but they just don't have time to reply.

I'm hoping that Fringe does get renewed but I'm definitely not holding my breath on it! :lol: Sometimes it seems like it's come a long way from that very first pilot episode but at least I've enjoyed watching my favorite character, Walter through each season. :)

And tonight is FRINGE Friday for all us hard core fans! :thumbsup:
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Sat Mar 31, 2012 1:12 am

JacobsMom wrote:
supermodel wrote:Wow only six posts about this ep, and most of them are me and DL. I guess that says something.


I think it's that time of the year where everybody is busy and maybe not posting much online. I enjoy reviewing my favorite shows episodes but I don't always get remarks back. People may still be watching but they just don't have time to reply.

I'm hoping that Fringe does get renewed but I'm definitely not holding my breath on it! :lol: Sometimes it seems like it's come a long way from that very first pilot episode but at least I've enjoyed watching my favorite character, Walter through each season. :)

And tonight is FRINGE Friday for all us hard core fans! :thumbsup:


Exactly! I do think everyone's busy...but if you look at the number of views on the threads, it appears people are reading, just not replying.

I really would love a season 5 just because I am curious where the writers would want to go from here, but I know if these is it, then I will just do my best to enjoy our last seven episodes. :)

VERY HAPPY FRINGE FRIDAY TO US ALL! :thumbsup:

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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Sat Mar 31, 2012 3:22 pm

"Nothing As It Seems"

I like this one much better than last weeks. It was great fun to go back to "The Transformation" and tie something seemingly loose in the other time line into something greater 'here'. (along with loose ends/MOTW from other episodes "Snake Head",

I don't think any of the other character's are going to remember other iterations of themselves, as I think in Olivia's case, it relies on both Peter and more importantly, the cortexifan. That's not to say that Walter isn't becoming more and more like whom he was...with other characters it may be a visceral transference, rather than full and visual memory sensory.

It was great see another version of season's three's red psychologist, season 1's Bowman, and Markham.
The marks/tattoos on the men are interesting too, tying us back to Newton, as William Bell told Olivia in "Momentum Deferred" that the shapeshifter's leader would have a certain mark on his body...and we never understood why the shapeshifters/Walternate would be have been after this specific cryogenically preserved scientists head. These marks may also relate to The First People in some way, since the marks are Cuneiform, which is similar to marks found on some of the machine parts when they were unearthed.

But seemingly this time it all falls on Jones, instead of detouring to Walternate, as once again we see that this cult of people like ZFT or End of Dayers, are attempting to create 'a better human being', as again I believe all these things plays on the original creation of The Observers...

Of course it seems Hicks didn't die and that his sister is also involved (Gina Holden seems to be an interesting character since she wants to be Mrs. Eve Porkypine!)

But it's interesting to see all of these animal mutations and to once again play on the name Conrad "Monreau", who had died this time around prior to these case and happens to share the name with a man working under Walternate in the 2026 time line, both considered terrorists.

Where ever Jones, Meana, and their cult is going seems to be bigger than what we have seen before since all of these things are cultivating at one time!

I also thought it was interesting Rachel stayed married and had a son, who still shares a name pattern with Ella...as Eddy is very similar (which Nina also shares this pattern)...and how interesting that he was named after Olivia and Rachel's grandfather...especially since the what was once Henry(who is initially named after the cab driver) , was not the first Henry in the Bishop line, as Walter comment once he had an uncle named Henry.

Another thing was fun was Lincoln Lee! I was so worried that he might become a goner! But I love the little nod to the game of chess he and Walter were playing...especially considering the Alcatraz finale episodes also went back to it's chess playing motif and Edwin James announced to Garret Stillman the importants of Bishops in the game!! ;) (Oh and there there are all the things pertaining to "Batman"--gosh do I love BR!)
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby JacobsMom on Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:31 pm

"Nothing as it seems"

I was sort of disappointed that the opening scene was just a replay of "The Transformation" from season 1. I guess it is just tptb's way of showing again that this is really our universe but only with those slight changes caused by Peter's removal. I did go back after this episode and rewatch "The Transformation" and I was surprised by how slow that episode moved along. I did enjoy most of "Nothing as it seems" and I think that had a lot to do with who directed once again, Frederick Toye! I love how he gives scenes a creepy feeling and the best was when I JUMPED during the scene where Lincoln gets attacked by Hicks the creature! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Okay, Olivia is not exactly the same person but I got sort of bored that she couldn't do her job. It was nice to see the counselor lady from the Red Universe as she grilled Olivia about things that Olivia didn't know anymore. I just thought it was great that Olivia is showing us she is that same stubborn person, no matter what, just like we heard from Nina later on! :lol: I keep seeing these role reversals over and over too. Now Olivia is sort of like Peter was before, no one trusts her and even with all this knowledge they shut her out. Peter though has gotten back to being himself, of course! And Lincoln Lee is like Our Olivia who lost her partner, wants to find love and even has started to break into locked houses! :thumbsup:

I'm not sure if tptb are trying to tell us something about Lincoln Lee's character in this episode but they tried to kill him off twice! First Olivia saves him and then Peter, so maybe it's a way for the viewers to forgive them for ruining Lincoln Lee's life with Fringe too! I hope they don't kill Lincoln off in this universe because he has become a part of the "family" as Walter says.

Walter is back to Our Walter almost but not quite. He is becoming socialized to the point of happiness with his new found "family" but he still needs Peter and Olivia to help with these cases. Before, it was always Walter who was the one for every answer and we don't get that anymore. I actually think this new version of the universe gives Olivia and Peter some of that control over Walter. They have the memories and Walter just has to play along with them knowing the answers this time around. I have to agree with Darth that our other characters may not ever get back their original memories of Our universe during the last 3 seasons which I find really, really sad. :(

I really didn't understand why the sister of Bowman wasn't arrested after being with Hicks/creature at the surgery clinic?? That part of the story line just didn't make sense imo. First Peter interviews her at the airport and she denies any knowledge of her brother's secrets, then she shows up at this clinic with another creature where they know she was helping to steal the lipids. :huh: Then we learn later at the lab that she wasn't hurt bad after Peter shot her and they let her go again after she claimed she didn't know anything about who was behind all this! :thumbsdown: Finally we finish the episode with her meeting a new man who she convinces to join this little cult of creatures. I'm not positive Darth but I think that was Hicks who died at the clinic after Lincoln shot him and the man with the sister was a new guy. :unsure: (That wasn't the same actor who played Hicks during "The Transformation" was it??)

Favorite Scenes:

Walter interrupting with his box of presents for Peter! Then Peter gives a response that Walter would never expect from someone who isn't his real son....he hugs Walter who is completely at a loss for words!

The talk between Peter and Lincoln Lee in the car as they discuss Olivia. Peter lets him know that L.L. is a nice guy.

Lincoln Lee is attacked in that creepy scene at Hicks house! Fringe has become Friday Fright Night! :lol: The part where Peter jumps is cool since he only sees his reflection in the mirror! :D

The whole scene with Peter, Olivia and Markham was perfect! Love, love, love the character Markham!! :thumbup:

Walters Yiddish and the look on Lincoln's face when Walter let's him know that he is probably infected from the wounds he got!

Walter's smile as he hears the "family" chatter in the lab between Astrid, Peter and Olivia! :wub:

Broyles reinstates Olivia after he lets her go on and on about being "good" the next time around! :lol:

Good Lines:
"Ladies and Gentleman, we have a passenger who is having a hard time." (Even though this is a repeat from season 1, I still love that line!!)
"At least one of us is still on the team." Olivia to Peter
"Yeah, I'm the good guy." L.L. (of course you are! :wub: )
"I suppose every version of you is stubborn." Nina :lol:
"Aphid!" Walter with a new name for Astrid....at last :thumbup:

Thing I noticed:
Anyone else notice how different Astrid's hair looked this week?? :S

A possible reference to "The Wizard of Oz" and flying monkeys with the wings on the creature? I did think that was kind of corny and just a way to show how they were reaching areas to steal lipids! :roll: Next, I can imagine all these creatures from the ship as they fly into Boston from the harbor! :lol: I can also hear that music they played in the movie as the monkeys fly off to get Dorthy! :D
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby WJames on Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:48 pm

I was so busy with work last month so no time for tv or internet but I finally watched Fringe today and... I loved this last episode!!! Loved it! All the lovely family dynamic the group has found once again made me very happy. Even Lincoln Lee. He is still getting over Olive (even though they didn't even officially happened) but time will heal his wounds and I am secretly wishing he and Astrid make little Leestrids. :PP
My favorite part of the episode were Peter/Walter moments; the hug, good news/bad news, the toy in the end (Peter immediately starts playing with it :lol: )

COTW was also very entertaining. The Man-PorcupineBat (Man-Bat nod I think) was great, though I fail to see how it is a step forward in the evolution?! And the end was just creepingly awesome! Is the Pattern back? Are all Fringe cases connected again? I loved that aspect of early seasons, that feeling that every COTW was connected, ZFT and all, and I was actually disappointed a little that it all led to Walter and Bell and with death of RDJ it was wrapped. But now we have Jones back, and it seems that writers are weaving an intricate web where they will hopefully connect all the dots into one cohesive whole. All the timelines, events, people, Observers etc.... We NEED season 5 for all of it to come together!!!
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Sat Apr 07, 2012 12:32 pm

Sorry it took me a while to get back to you, JacobsMom! I def think I made some kind of mistake with Hicks I need to rewatch it to see why I thought the guy at the end was Daniel Hicks...but maybe they just had similar body types...

I love :wub: :thumbsup: your idea about paralleling the animal shapeshifters to The Flying Monkeys, especially since Peter mentions them to Blue Lee earlier in the season...

4x17 "Everything In It's Right Place"

Well Ricky Terry and I predicted correctly. Red Lincoln was sadly and suddenly killed. Someone had asked (on The Consultant Promo Pic Page) why any of us thought that and this was my response:

I think on Fringe anything is possible.

Just to support the idea:In the season 1-3 time lines they were starting to do this thing where one of each doppleganger would die...Blue Charlie, Red Broyles....

There also might be something to be said for people falling in love with people from other universes as a mean of "Balance". Peter and Olivia could have initially stood for that, even though there may be shift because of the way he and Olivia end up re-configuring themselves into the new time line....

Additionally 4x17 is going out of it's way to have the Lincolns meet and discuss where their lives differed. I think it's a building up for a reason.When we think about it, Blue Lee never had the oppurtunity to have his heart broken by Blue Olivia...but more importantly, Red Olivia never fully commits to Red Lee...She literally took his friendship for granted. She broke up with Frank and never sought out Peter. it might suggest that something never felt right and she never met the one she "could" really love...and ultimately if this pairing would occur, it would help Red Olivia understand Blue Olivia better, because Blue Lee is a lot like her.

(Plus "Everything in It's Right Place" goes along with the idea, "which one of these things does not belong?" )

Obviously there are always things that are going to be sad. People that get sacrificed, but the only thing we can hope for is that something good comes out of it. If one person in the series is really the "good guy" and a really strong well rounded character, Red Lee is him and he would want his friends to be happy.

They also played it up with close calls to Blue Lee in "Nothing As It Seems"...and sometimes when one doppleganger experiences something, it may relate to the other one (ex: The same Old Story: Blue Olivia experience and astral projected accelerated birth pregnancy...it actually happens to Red Olivia)

The Episode Itself:

I liked a lot. I thought it was interesting to use an "old" model shapeshifter and make him a vigil-anti! It seems to play into that idea of both not thinking a person deserves to be somebody, but also this idea of genocide to make a better world. It was interesting that Jones went after the old shapeshifters and tasked them to do things. I am looking forward to a show down with Jones and our team. Unless he is working on behalf of a bigger fish, it seems he is the big villain of the piece in this timeline.
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby JacobsMom on Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:22 pm

^ Darth Thanks, but I see what you guys meant by the Batman reference as he took her in his arms as they flew away! :D I'm older than you guys, so I first just thought flying monkeys from The Wizard of Oz. :lol: Fringe does reference the movie a lot though. :)



"Everything In It's Right Place"

I LOVED this episode!!! :thumbsup: I thought the writing/storyline was excellent, excellent,excellent. :D This was all Lincoln Lee's(Blue and Red) episode to start fitting the pieces together. I knew he wouldn't be able to just fit into our Fringe family so I was worried that tptb would have to somehow kill him off to make things right. I wasn't a huge fan of the Red L.L. so I was sad but relieved that he died at the end and not our nerdy L.L., whom I loved from the first at the beginning of the new season.

So things are starting to come together and "heal" in the Red universe. We get to see the amber areas being opened up again and people here are becoming hopeful that their world has a future. I liked how our Lincoln Lee is searching for his new home as the episode starts. He knows he is once again lost in his own universe so maybe it would be good to just get away for a while. I have to agree with Darth about how maybe our Lincoln Lee was never meant to be with our Olivia. I think they are "mirror" images of each others lives so he does need a different Olivia to be with. The Red Olivia is perfect for him. She is funny, relaxed and brings out a different side of our L.L.

I also think it was important that the similarities between the two L.L. were so exact. Maybe this time around it was meant to be for Blue L.L. to survive and the Red L.L. to die. Red L.L. had accomplished his goals of who he was to become in his world, and now Blue L.L. could continue on with the possibility of balancing out the two universes since Peter was from the Red universe and never suppose to leave. I believe that Blue L.L. will choose to remain here in the Red universe when the time comes for him to do that. Shifts have occurred and both L.L.'s were affected by these shifts in the universes.

Canaan, the shape shifter, reminded me of the one S.S. in "Do Shapeshifters Dream Of Electric Sheep?" That one wanted to keep his human family and all the good things it brought out in him. Canaan had a family too but lost it and couldn't start over again. He turned to DRJ and his promise of becoming a part of this "new family/cult" but as things progressed, he realized that he couldn't keep killing innocent victims so he chose the worst of the worst to kill instead. I liked the fact that in the end after he spared L.L. life, Canaan gets his second chance to help both universes bring down DRJ and his organization.

There was a nice parallel in the story line between our L.L. and Canaan. They both had lost what they once had in their lives and now needed to move on. I liked how L.L. went in to talk with him as they waited and tried to get answers from him. Instead L.L. hears his own similar story and realizes Canaan wasn't that different from him, other than choosing to follow another path with DRJ. I kept waiting for that shot from the assassin since L.L. had been spared already by Canaan but it didn't come, thank goodness!!

I do have to admit that I needed a rewatch to finally figure everything out in the end. :blush: It didn't quite make sense as it ended with Red Nina being arrested and so I knew I had missed something! Red Olivia couldn't have missed that shot either! :lol: I loved it though!! It was great that Canaan went and took over the assassin's body and came back to trick Nina into believing that things went well. It was pretty cool how we see her try to escape and the helicopters are coming in to get her. The best part was when Red Astrid has to come in to Col. Broyles office with her news of knowing he is working with DRJ. I'm betting that this is what she wants to say and I can't imagine how much courage this would take for her to tell him. I'm sort of worried at this point for her safety too. :scared:

Favorite Scenes:

Red Lincoln Lee and Blue Lincoln Lee compare the history of their lives.

Lincoln Lee speaks with Canaan after he is caught.

Lincoln Lee is angry that Red L.L. was shot and tells Canaan to "Choose!"

Red Astrid comes into see Col. Broyles with some news! :O

Lincoln Lee tells Red Olivia he will stay and help her with DRJ. :wub:

Fun Stuff:

Gene the cow with her FBI get up...boots, hat and blanket!!

Red Olivia uses Blue L.L. to get back at Red L.L. using their middle name, Tyrone! :thumbup:

Batman/Mantis super hero reference! "Oh, cause nothing says "bad ass" like a flying rat!" :lol:

Nice shout out to "Harry Potter" with the newspaper that had the moving picture of fighters on it!

The use of a white shirt on Red Lincoln Lee as a sort of hidden "target" as he gets shot by the assassin.


I thought it was an interesting choice of the name "Canaan" since in the bible, the Canaanites were destroyed by another group of people. The Canaanites were a pretty advanced civilization . Maybe a reference to The Observers or our First People?
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby supermodel on Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:39 pm

I have a lot of thoughts but I just don;t have time to compose a long post right now. So for now I will leave you with this, from DigitalSpy:
Fringe exec Joel Wyman has revealed that news on the show's future should emerge soon.

The showrunner confirmed on Twitter that the fate of the Fox sci-fi drama will be decided "this week".

"[We] should know something this week," he wrote. "Feeling good. All of your support and positive thoughts help."

Wyman, who executive produces the series alongside Jeff Pinker, added that Fringe will return for just 13 episodes if picked up by Fox.

However, he ruled out the possibility of a Fringe film, telling a fan: "No plans for a movie."

Series star Seth Gabel (Lincoln Lee) recently admitted that he feels frustrated about the show's uncertain future.

"It sucks that it's a possibility of it being the end," he said last month. "We all hate it. You look at the [audience] numbers and you can only imagine what Fox is feeling."

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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:33 pm

Thanks, Supermodel! I def think the fact that Wyman twittered such a statement is positive news. I can't imaging making a statement like that with knowing bad news would be coming. So I'm basically going to take it as an unofficial announcement that there will be a 13 episode season 5. (My fingers are crossed just the same)

----------------------

JacobsMom wrote: I thought it was an interesting choice of the name "Canaan" since in the bible, the Canaanites were destroyed by another group of people. The Canaanites were a pretty advanced civilization . Maybe a reference to The Observers or our First People?


Thanks for this, JacobsMom! :D I totally didn't catch his name and clearly it's significant! :thumbup:

I pretty much think that we are NOT out of woods yet with Olivia's awareness to Mr. X/September's warning...Like Newton for Walternate, I believe Canaan is on a mission for Jones and that Jones set up the red Fringe team to help get Canaan to the other side...

The season has played a lot of recognition to people with prophecy-like abilities....types of predetermination! I think Canaan is one of those people since they conveyed the idea he could tell people apart, good people for bad people (or rather he could spot "criminals").

I also agree with you that THIS reference will relate to the remaining episodes and the Observers and a time of advanced people. :thumbsup:
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby JacobsMom on Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:49 pm

Thanks for this, JacobsMom! :D I totally didn't catch his name and clearly it's significant! :thumbup:

I pretty much think that we are NOT out of woods yet with Olivia's awareness to Mr. X/September's warning...Like Newton for Walternate, I believe Canaan is on a mission for Jones and that Jones set up the red Fringe team to help get Canaan to the other side...

The season has played a lot of recognition to people with prophecy-like abilities....types of predetermination! I think Canaan is one of those people since they conveyed the idea he could tell people apart, good people for bad people (or rather he could spot "criminals").

I also agree with you that THIS reference will relate to the remaining episodes and the Observers and a time of advanced people. :thumbsup:


I guess I never thought of the possibility of Canaan/DRJ doing a "long con" on both the Fringe teams as Lincoln helps him go to our universe. :hmm: My take on the whole episode was the fact that Canaan and our Lincoln had these similarities between them of being lost souls. At the end we get the exchange of Canaan coming to our side and Lincoln staying on to help Red Olivia with the case against DRJ. I suppose it could be possible that Canaan will turn out to be this Mr. X who kills Olivia after he gains the trust of our team. The thing is, would DRJ want Olivia dead in the first place with her special capabilities that we saw him earlier restart with the ruse of using the Red Nina and finally Peter?? :unsure:
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Re: [Official] FRINGE Eps. 4.11 - 4.14 Discussion Thread

Postby DarthLocke on Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:20 am

JacobsMom wrote:
Thanks for this, JacobsMom! :D I totally didn't catch his name and clearly it's significant! :thumbup:

I pretty much think that we are NOT out of woods yet with Olivia's awareness to Mr. X/September's warning...Like Newton for Walternate, I believe Canaan is on a mission for Jones and that Jones set up the red Fringe team to help get Canaan to the other side...

The season has played a lot of recognition to people with prophecy-like abilities....types of predetermination! I think Canaan is one of those people since they conveyed the idea he could tell people apart, good people for bad people (or rather he could spot "criminals").

I also agree with you that THIS reference will relate to the remaining episodes and the Observers and a time of advanced people. :thumbsup:


I guess I never thought of the possibility of Canaan/DRJ doing a "long con" on both the Fringe teams as Lincoln helps him go to our universe. :hmm: My take on the whole episode was the fact that Canaan and our Lincoln had these similarities between them of being lost souls. At the end we get the exchange of Canaan coming to our side and Lincoln staying on to help Red Olivia with the case against DRJ. I suppose it could be possible that Canaan will turn out to be this Mr. X who kills Olivia after he gains the trust of our team. The thing is, would DRJ want Olivia dead in the first place with her special capabilities that we saw him earlier restart with the ruse of using the Red Nina and finally Peter?? :unsure:


Besides the comparison with Newton and Walternate, there is one other reason why I can see this possibility...I def think that there could be reasons why Jones would want her for something...Remember ZFT in the season 1-3 time line went around [unsucessfully in most cases] trying to activate all the cortexifan subjects...Since his life was cut short, we never knew what Jones and ZFT wanted the cortexifan subjects for, but given this whole idea of taking the plot and ajoining it with the shapeshifters storyline from seasons 2 and 3, what if Jones wants to try and give the shapeshifters cortexifan abilities? ---what if the shapeshifters kill the cortexifan subjects to gain the ability?! :hmm: --This would put them one step closer in being like the Observers, as I still believe all the Fringe cases in all the time lines reflect the Observers own evolution...

I am not sure Canaan will be the one to attempt to kill Olivia, but If Jones is still trying to activate them and use them for something, I can't imagine he would keep them alive after he gets what he wants --Walternate was going to kill Olivia and considered studing her brain matter after he was able to extract the cortexifan from her...

"Entrada" Transcript:

SECRETARY BISHOP: (sternly) The principle is the same. You simply need to narrow the harmonic field to focus on something smaller. A single person. We'll use the girl. I've gotten all we need from her and obviously they have equivalent mass. Pull your team off whatever they're doing. I need a time and a location for Agent Dunham.

BRANDON FAYETTE: (candidly) Alive or dead? How do you want to send back their Olivia? Alive or dead? Because I feel there are very valuable parts for study and I would just have to replace her mass. (leaves the office shortly thereafter and finds the next visitor... to Colonel Broyles) He's ready for you.


OLIVIA: Do you know what they're gonna do to me? (pulls back her bangs) Why I have these marks on my forehead? They're sending me back. They're gonna swap me for your Olivia. But they're gonna kill me first. They're gonna cut out my brain... and study it. (begs) Please help me. If you can get me out of here, I can get myself home.


IMO Mr. X will always be the leader of a theological scientific terrorist organization...so depending on who ends up on top as leader, Canaan, Meana, Jones, or someone else we haven't met, I think it's building to one of them!
Last edited by DarthLocke on Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Yet for all their evolution, they form no bonds.
Love does not exist for them. They are incapable of dreaming,
Of contemplating beauty, Of knowing something greater than themselves.
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