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Regarding the Observers and 2036

PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:41 pm
by LockeUp
Did the writers know all along? I have to say that I'm impressed with the things they are calling back on in previous seasons. Seems like they aren't leaving anything to question.

Re: Regarding the Observers and 2036

PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:38 am
by DarthLocke
I do think they planned ahead some :) The writing IMO has been pretty tight ...and since "The Arrival" I have wondered about a "temporal cold war" that involves several iterations and alterations to some long lost time line....and various types of time travel between them...

However, this new iteration is starting to not just show slight role shifts and life extensions for certain characters, but also role reversals...there are things that are very opposite to what we thought and/or knew to be the truth in our season 1-3 time line, including the physics...and this leads me think that even if the Observers appear or become bad here, that there is no choice, but to eventually come to this 'road' with them. (going back to LOST, "All Roads Lead Here!") I think the Observers and the Machines are set up so that man is always motivated to save themselves and continiously become better human beings...

Re: Regarding the Observers and 2036

PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:08 am
by LockeUp
So do the Observers dictate the timeline then? Rather than just observe and "take over" when the time comes? I LOVE the storyline with the Observers. There is so much potential and so much actual connectivity within our own being. It's just absolutely brilliant. That clip I posted fits perfectly with what season 5 is partly going to be about and I think that the cognitive aspect between the two "species" should explored way more.

Re: Regarding the Observers and 2036

PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:23 pm
by DarthLocke
LockeUp wrote:So do the Observers dictate the timeline then? Rather than just observe and "take over" when the time comes? I LOVE the storyline with the Observers. There is so much potential and so much actual connectivity within our own being. It's just absolutely brilliant. That clip I posted fits perfectly with what season 5 is partly going to be about and I think that the cognitive aspect between the two "species" should explored way more.

I kind of think that something may "trigger" them to change....and I agree, I do love the idea of 'having to deal with many different types of versions of ourselves', as an over all driving plot! -I have no doubt that the Observers will be something that is continued to be explored. :)

I have a theory that goes back to Alias:

Note: I know it's 2699 as opposed to 2700

I recently had been speaking about some episodes and plot lines from Alias. Alias mythos revolves around a 15th century Italian inventor and prophet of sorts, named Milo Rambaldi. He somehow envisioned the future and made prophecy manifesto to create devices that could only be build with the technology of modern day. Many of Alias antagonists such as Arvin Sloane and Irena Derevko, continued to find Rambaldi artifacts and build his works through out the series. Sloane usually referred to a few of the works as Milo Rambaldi's "end game".

I bring this up, because besides that there are already some nice Alias parallels, the FRINGE season four finale titles were called, "End Game",until recently changed.

One of the "end games" in Alias revolved around what we come to know as "the muller device" and these orchids in an Italian Monastery that were grown by bees. There is a man, Ned Blodger, who has nearly identical brain as Arvin Sloane, whom a group of terrorist known as The Covedent, were able to make him believe that he was Arvin Sloane and was dubbed by fans as Arvin's Clone. He goes to the Monastery to get the orchid, but he brings along a small scaled muller device and makes the peaceful bees completely changed their behavior and they go erratic and become extremely hostile. (a larger scale of the devise along with a modified orchid also causes "gas" to emit from the Muller ball and caused many people to become crazed-hostile-sub humans later in the series)

One Recant Fringe episode, "A Better Human Being" gets into varied clones whom are on their own kind of telekinetic 'ghost network'. It may hint as being another ability the Observers may come to have...a collective conscience....or "Bee Hive Mind".

Now I don't know it this episode ("Letters of Transit") is a flash forward, or if it will become parallel universe (in which case the order of all events could lead us to one that manifests as a time fold and or this time existed prior to season 1 and may be the first altered time line), but at any rate it occurred to me, thinking of the Observers as "bees", that perhaps something "changed" their behavior...a specific event or a piece of technology.

The episode tells us that in 2700 A.D (I think?) The Observers suddenly gas the planet and then they time traveled back to take over at the 2015 mark and then make a second mini purge. (any one feelings the Lost right now?) So what made them do this??? Was it in 2700 A.D.? --Or did they get destracted by something/someone else...was it an accident?

If it didn't happen in 2700A.D., then maybe the event lies with Jones....Going back to the latest Beyond the Fringe comic agian, the one that also deals with the future, another 2036 and 2046, we learn the new scientist take Walter out of cryogenic animated suspension...they need him to help them with a certain kind of energy. Walter figures out that the machine produces "strange matter", but the matter is dangerous because it "eats" everything in its path. He is able to use it fuel a space ship so they can travel to find other resources to save their planet....However, once they find one, he sends the Olivia clones out to scout the land, meanwhile working below deck, the DRJ clones decide they hate being "punished" for what the original has done, and so they decide to cause a mutiny....unfortunately, their mutiny caused a crash with the ship and the fuel tank cracked and the matter started to spread and eat everything on the new found planet...and this is how the comic ends.

It might suggest that DRJ may be the initiator of such an event, or maybe even be responsible for the change in protocol of the Observers...what ever he might do, may have send a shocke-wave through time...but it still doesn't explain the 2/3 year gap inbetween 2012 and 2015, unless part of the finale is going to take place in 2015...

Darque and I also have been discussing how and if they can have children (child Observer) and if they are protecting their youth somewhere....

I also think it's hard to understand their over all purpose without seeing a fuller history, but I think like the smoke monster, they may have been created so that man is forced to save themselves and become, better human one way or another, time and time again.

I went to reread some thoughts I had on "Creating the Perfect Soldier: The Evolution of the Observers" thread...the way I chose to word something, made me think again back to Christine Hollis... If there is still truth to the logic that what gives humanity a chance to change the future, is to make humanity important by killing the Observers, then that might be the over all plot to the 2036 time line.....but another way to spin that is that August death wasn't important just because he died, it's because of what he died for...the choice to see a different future and to feel LOVE...---Widmark's mind attack on Rick was much like seeing the Sith use the dark side of the force (there were a lot of Star Wars references in LOT), then the real goal is make the Observers (or certain Observers) feel LOVE...Like Darth Vader chooses his love and a future for Luke and sacrifices his life, for the sake of his personal relations...Some one (Observer) in 2036 may chose to help them save/change the future...

Let's hope Widmark isn't September's father :lol: ;)

Re: Regarding the Observers and 2036

PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:05 pm
by Darque
This is not specific to the Observers or 2036, but I really think the writers had a strong outline and knew how things would fit together if given time to evolve the story.

I was reading the ZFT bits we have seen and it astounded me how much it related to this season finale and the series as a whole. I mean I always thought it was important and in some ways the basis of the series, but I never delved into it or gave it too much thought.

For those that have never read the ZFT manuscript pages we have seen in episodes here they are transcribed. Some parts are complete and others are incomplete and just partial words or parts of sentences, but it still makes for good reading and a better understanding of the series as a whole.

ZFT manuscript pieces:
- From Ability:
The advances of science which is supposed to expand our knowledge of the universe, will, if not carefully controlled, destroy the world as we know it...

Our technological ambitions have not only driven us to the brink of catastrophe, the catastrophe has already begun. What will the apocalypse look like?

The answer, to use a term generally understood but the specifics of which you cannot imagine, in which this document will attempt to describe, is “warfare”.

From Ability:
Give yourself to the cause and the fight, and to the victor goes history.

The other is as determined as we are and is never to be underesti-mated in his intention to destroy us. His understanding of complete and his determination to survive is unimpeachable. We shall not heed his words nor allay his fears.

The nature of the universe allows for all the circumstances neededto present us with this unwelcome opportunity. Would that it were and that existence of all beings could be allowed to continue. Alas, that is not to be.

Who are these who are to fight? What is the selection process? Is this a natural phenomenon or is it a construct of further arrogance on the part of humanity?

[??] the last: Both. Neither.

Humanity is naught but the collection of it’s moments and the sum of it’s parts. That some may be used to counter others is as natural a selection process as the lion and the gazelle, Homo-Sapien and Cro-Magnon. In this there is comfort should it be needed. This is not a war of hatred and anger. It is a battle of survival.

Thus the Soldier to come is both natural and, fairly, unnatural. A ...
ter to his enemy and a hero, possible a god, to his charge. Do not underestimate the feelings that victory will instill in both savior and saved, either. This is a thought to be covered later.

The question for now is what is the Soldier and what is the Recruit?

The former is the culmination of millennia and days both. The time to develop the intellect is beyond imagination, yet the preparation for the exercise of it is measured in comparative nanoseconds.The latter is the clay from which the other is formed, a potentialwithout release until the training and revealing has been enacted.But even that will not happen without the preparation of science.This is the conundrum of our knowledge. This is part of the mystery of what we are about to do.

In all of history, only a few bloodlines have been found to be ready for the work of our body. Only very few of those of the right lines are capable of dealing with the responsibility and fewer still are able to field the weapons of their ...

Over many years the right individuals have ......
sible, but for now, our list is complet......
here is no time to continue the ......of a select few, the identi...
Soldier and Recruit alike. ......
pt this ignorance ...

From Ability:
... We think we understand reality, but our universe is only one of many. The unknown truths of the way to travel between them has already been discovered, by beings much like us but who's history is slightly ahead of our own. The negative aspects of such visitations will be irreversible both to our world and to theirs. It will begin with a series of unnatural occurrences. Difficult to notice at first but growing, not unlike a cancer, until a simple fact becomes undeniable only one world will survive and it will either be us or them.

From Ability:
But this commingling of universes will violate the natural order.Both ours... and theirs.

Cross-pollination will lead to a series of inevitable breakdown... Unquantifiable at first, but growing, not unlike a cancer, until... simple fact becomes self-evident.

Only one side will prevail. And it will be wither us...or them.

Many warriors of the inevitable confrontation are among us now. But before they can be considered soldiers, they must be regarded as Recruits. And the expectation must be that they should be unwilling.

A black horizon approaches. Our scientific advancements have sodramatically outpaced those of the human soul that man, a creation... defined by passion and greed, now stands at the base of an in... pyramid of knowledge which expands heavenward with with no regard for the the frailty of its foundation. We will as a species, surely be crushed beneath its weight.

But we will not simply perish. The very fabric of our universe will be torn to rags.

Like an infant conducting the firmament, these technological trends will produce a cumulative impact far more catastrophic than the minds of its architects can possibly understand.

Against those men of science, whose grand investigations will usher in the cataclysm, stand only a handful who can see beyond the horizon, Soldier angels who must watch over and protect us before...blind, thoughtless beast fed by thousands upon thousands of our...Pandora's force open the locks of Nature and compel her to spill...her precious secrets.

Of all the beings considered for the gift of continuance, only thosewho qualify at the molecular level are to be approached....not their resistance deflect our intent. All rules of societal...behavior are void in the pursuit of the goal. Morality has no place......

in the coming battle and those that hesitate will perish in the coming...
table dec...
generally understood (but..
.ine, and which this document..

From Road Not Taken:
Those who shall be among those saved will be those
...chosen to fight, this much is obvious. What is also
...the assistance of the many who have brought us to this point without their realizing it.
This will be accomplished by
... of those who know. Yet willingly move about in the camp
... initiated. They will move the unknowing in the direction
... need to be guided

What we know as reality is only a fragile membrane on
...of a larger multiverse. A skin on a bowl of pudding.

The unknown truth is that the means to crossover have already been discovered — by beings much like us, but whose history is slightly ahead of our own. These beings are not of our world as such, and as such should be treated as enemies. Were it possible to negotiate...
so but this is not possible because they...
uld suspect.

slightly ahead of our own is an...
deserves attention. Later in this document...
as to what exactly this means and how it is possible...
ice for now that our future is not necessary...
through it should be remembered that the f...
amount of clarity, be obfuscated. This is not a cost...
statement and again will be explained.
ns of our victory depends on a confluence of scientific...
ent and the willingness to used that which would other...
our destruction is paramount and need not be justified. Government...society in general are not prepared for the knowledge we...must at all cost be kept from it lest a catastrophe...take place. The destruction for within of the human...
nestion as to the right of existence is one that shal...
ed..the lives of those formerly unknown beings des...
continue unadulterated? Would that the situation...
there is no question as to the infeasibility
destruction is assured were it...
It is not just ourselves who..
the other is as culpable...
this reason alone...

From Road Not Taken:
... Our children are our greatest resource. We must nurture them and protect them. We must prepare them so they can one day protect us.