MAJOR SPOILERS for 5x11

Spoiler discussion for 'Fringe'

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Re: MAJOR SPOILERS for 5x11

Postby DarthLocke on Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:19 pm

WJames wrote:
DarthLocke wrote:IMO the simplest way is if at the end of their time line, they came back and invaded the middle (possibly still unfolding) our *new time line, suggesting that their time line has been there and preserved (it's own universe) the whole time...and when the other blue and red universes continued to die and get stuck in loops, theirs didn't


This is what I always thought, because the act of invading would mean that they are changing the variables of the timeline and could be causing unknown changes in their present (2609). So I thought that their timeline is as you say locked, constant, preserved no matter what shenanigans they pull in our present... BUT, the show could explain it that The Observers calculated all the variables, perhaps seen them after observing and then came to conclusion that they have to invade in order to be created and get to their 2609. We'll see.


Exactly! :D

The episode where Peter tries to destroy the wormhole, it immediately gets course corrected and reset. So something very strange is happening to be able to do that so fast!
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Re: MAJOR SPOILERS for 5x11

Postby rtterry3225 on Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:33 pm

DarthLocke wrote:
WJames wrote:
DarthLocke wrote:IMO the simplest way is if at the end of their time line, they came back and invaded the middle (possibly still unfolding) our *new time line, suggesting that their time line has been there and preserved (it's own universe) the whole time...and when the other blue and red universes continued to die and get stuck in loops, theirs didn't


This is what I always thought, because the act of invading would mean that they are changing the variables of the timeline and could be causing unknown changes in their present (2609). So I thought that their timeline is as you say locked, constant, preserved no matter what shenanigans they pull in our present... BUT, the show could explain it that The Observers calculated all the variables, perhaps seen them after observing and then came to conclusion that they have to invade in order to be created and get to their 2609. We'll see.


Exactly! :D

The episode where Peter tries to destroy the wormhole, it immediately gets course corrected and reset. So something very strange is happening to be able to do that so fast!




Not Exactly! O.o

It is simple time-travel mechanics.

You destroy a way station in the future where time-travel to the past is possible, and it doesn't matter for how long your antimatter grenade shut them down they can eventually recover, and when they do they just ship it back the place on the same date, but just a few minutes later.

Example:

Original shipment: To be sent from 2609 to 2036 @ exactly 9:01 am on December 20th.

Revised shipment: To be sent from 2680 (80 years later so as to have time for the Observers to repair their way station) to 2036 @ exactly 9:11 am on December 20th.

From the perception of our characters in 2036 it would seem like their antimatter grenade did nothing but stunt then for ten minutes, and then they just shipped it on over. But from the perception of the Observers in 2609, they are set back 80 years, and have to fully recover from this devastation, but will still send their shipment back to the same space time ten minutes later than originally scheduled.
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Re: MAJOR SPOILERS for 5x11

Postby DarthLocke on Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:58 am

rtterry3225 wrote:
DarthLocke wrote:
WJames wrote:
DarthLocke wrote:IMO the simplest way is if at the end of their time line, they came back and invaded the middle (possibly still unfolding) our *new time line, suggesting that their time line has been there and preserved (it's own universe) the whole time...and when the other blue and red universes continued to die and get stuck in loops, theirs didn't


This is what I always thought, because the act of invading would mean that they are changing the variables of the timeline and could be causing unknown changes in their present (2609). So I thought that their timeline is as you say locked, constant, preserved no matter what shenanigans they pull in our present... BUT, the show could explain it that The Observers calculated all the variables, perhaps seen them after observing and then came to conclusion that they have to invade in order to be created and get to their 2609. We'll see.


Exactly! :D

The episode where Peter tries to destroy the wormhole, it immediately gets course corrected and reset. So something very strange is happening to be able to do that so fast!




Not Exactly! O.o

It is simple time-travel mechanics.

You destroy a way station in the future where time-travel to the past is possible, and it doesn't matter for how long your antimatter grenade shut them down they can eventually recover, and when they do they just ship it back the place on the same date, but just a few minutes later.

Example:

Original shipment: To be sent from 2609 to 2036 @ exactly 9:01 am on December 20th.

Revised shipment: To be sent from 2680 (80 years later so as to have time for the Observers to repair their way station) to 2036 @ exactly 9:11 am on December 20th.

From the perception of our characters in 2036 it would seem like their antimatter grenade did nothing but stunt then for ten minutes, and then they just shipped it on over. But from the perception of the Observers in 2609, they are set back 80 years, and have to fully recover from this devastation, but will still send their shipment back to the same space time ten minutes later than originally scheduled.



You misunderstood what I meant, which is understandable because I didn't clarify. (I was on my cell phone and just hate writing anything much out!)

I said "exactly" to the reason of the variable factor of WJames statement, that if we were in one time line, effecting the past would in affect effect the future simultaneously.

The next part I wrote is what might contradict the idea that there are two time lines, which is why it might be more complicated than "the simplest idea", as WJames also suggested (and I have been debating about with you). I gave him an instance where the second idea might be truer, rather than the first idea we were discussing, because it provides evidence of attempting to harbor/protect an outcome, and exposing a vulnerability.

If they destroyed/effect the 2609 mark Rick, then somebody has to send a message to someone else in order to ever send a truck "again" from when ever they do...And this would take TIME. (Time to send the message, time to get another truck, time to get another driver, time to make another black hole.)
Additionally if they sent another truck from another time it requires another truck that looks exactly like the other one with the same "tech" in it, because that is what it looks like.

-In any case the fact that they sent another near identical or identical truck through the black hole(s) so many minutes apart in time suggest a "need" in their trajectory. (There trying to make an outcome constant)


2036 is still in motion and moving too! They do not reset 2036 or put it on any kind of stasis, but the/a Truck does! (reset can mean something that in some way happens again in order to get to a desired outcome). So either "we" don't see the branch off where Peter is successful with no reset, because the showrunners want us to follow the Peter who isn't. -BUT that also it implies that these Observers can "reset" and protect their future/desired outcome(s) from multiple points, which makes everything way more complicated. (Windmark himself has commented on his own trajectory and being reset to his "right" path...)

If this time line is new, then there would have to have at least 2 sets of Observers since another 2400 already exist "here" and also "elsewhere" in order for September, August, December, July, "Inner Child's" child Observer (which may or may not be Michael) to exist in the season 1-3 iteration.And if it is the original, then a good chunk of it is in the past and characters manifested back into it, creating alterations...
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