Season 7 - Episode 4 - Defending your Life

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Season 7 - Episode 4 - Defending your Life

Postby Bec666 on Sat Oct 15, 2011 3:16 am

Let's discuss :)


Yea! Excellent episode. Too much weepy Dean but other than that, great.

Loved the beginning and Sam thanking Dean for not killing Amy. Whoopsie Dean....

I also liked the way Sam sort of took over. Ok, hated it too cause it just reinforced how much Dean needs to seek serious help. Sam is rockin' and rolling and Dean is crying in his beer....

LOVED seeing Jo again and they did her credit. She was great in the episode and she didn't turn on Dean. I liked that. I was afraid they would make her into some kind of vengeful Jo.

I loved the ending too. For a change Sam is in control and Dean is the messed up one. Well I don't like that but it's nice to FINALLY see Sam say "I don't feel guilty". He's finally come to terms with all the crap and yeah, he's right. He went to hell and spent time in the cage. He's done his time.

9 out of 10 for me. Bravo Sera, you are rockin' this season.
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Re: Season 7 - Episode 4 - Defending your Life

Postby CLDeangrl on Sat Oct 15, 2011 3:19 am

Ok, that was...interesting.

Great episode...loved the concept, loved how it was handled. But it left me feeling frustrated at the end.

Good to see Sam being Sam and the hallucinations taking a back seat.

Still freaking HATING this side of Dean.

The concept of Osiris and people's guilt, given the underpinnings of this show, was nothing short of brilliant.

The whole trial scene was fascinating. Loved Sam the lawyer.

"I was pre-law!"

"Yeah...PRE!" :rofl:

Bringing in Jo was painful but it was good to see her again and good to know that she's not blaming Dean for anything. If only he'd get that through that thick head of his.

I was wondering why they never brought up Dad, you'd think that was the biggest guilt Dean was carrying around but I guess he must have made peace with it along the way.

I was waiting for them to bring up Amy and when they didn't get to it, I was waiting for it to come out in the last five minutes emo talk, but alas...but I'll get to that in a minute.

LOVED the final confrontation with Jo. I was cheering as she was telling Dean exactly what he needed to hear. I just hope somehow, some part of him was listening.

Nice of them to brush over how Sam got the ram's horn from the rabbi...but I guess he just used that Sammy charm. :D

And then, we came to the aforementioned emo talk...and this is where my frustration set in. I was SO hoping Dean would come around, although deep down I knew it wouldn't be that simple...it never is on this show.

Interesting to hear that Sam is feeling better about things. Funny how they completely reverse things...Sam, who has the whole hallucination deal, is at peace and Dean's being chewed up by guilt. Sigh...I'd still like to smack him upside the head! But it's just the kind of unexpected twist we've come to expect from this show and what makes it stand out from the pack so much. So I guess I can't really complain.

Anhyoo, looks like the Amy thing is the big secret Dean is holding back afterall. And now we get to wonder when the other shoe will finally drop and what Sam's reaction will be. But it wouldn't be SPN without a little tension.

I'm not happy, but I can deal. And I'm still holding out hope. It better not come back to bite me in the ass! :P

But all in all, this season is definitely rocking so far...damn, I love this show! :thumbup:
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Re: Season 7 - Episode 4 - Defending your Life

Postby Ruth78 on Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:35 am

Where to start? OK, first off, a mention for Jared/Sam - I think his acting ability has really grown along with him, and although I feel a bit like they tidied up the fallen wall thing a bit too neatly, so they could focus on Dean, I'm liking this new version of Sam, and kudos to him as an actor, because the character has had everything thrown at him and you get the feel, that however it comes off, he's always giving it his all.

Ok, now the episode: Not a favourite with me, but I think I'll be in a minority on that!

I'm a little tired of dead loved ones being brought back for Dean to get tearful over - it's not a novelty concept anymore, so I hope it's the last time :blush: (Though I'm not denying Dean looks very pretty when he's tearful!)
I'm tired of the guilt trip too - or at least with the way it's being dealt with - for me, I'd buy it more if he came clean about Amy, and cleared the slate with Sam about the past - all this internalising is exhausting to watch!

I wasn't too happy when I read that Dean was going to ask Sam why he wasn't picked out for trial - I thought he'd be laying a guilt trip on him, but actually that last scene was ok (other than the fact that Dean is a disturbingly good liar!) - Heck, he ALMOST came close to thanking Sam for being there for him!

Overall, I'm not tearing my hair out like last week but I'm still not really happy.

I'm not worried about Sam's reaction when he finds out about Amy - thinking about it, he always forgives easier than Dean does, anyway - so I don't think it'll be TOO bad.
What would worry me is if there's to be ANOTHER secret - because then I think they'd be really overdoing it with this Dean arc (and, to be clear, I'm not keen on long solo arcs for either character)

6/10 for last night from me.

-- Merged Double Post --

Just on another note - you never get to feel how much Dean loves someone until he's lost them, but I'm still really undecided at the moment about what his feeling are - if he has any left - towards Sam.

We've had lots of moments over the years where Sam has shown by a look or a word that he loves his brother - quite often it's the only emotional aspect of Sam that we do see....but I'd love just once for Dean to affirm that he wants Sam around not because he needs to keep an eye on him, or because he is doing his duty by him, or simply doesn't want to hunt alone, but because he loves him and wants to have him around - or, to quote Sam "just 'cause".

You know, if last night was a kind of gift to Dean and Jo fans, then this would be the gift I'd ask for to fans of Dean and Sam, and brotherly love!!
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Re: Season 7 - Episode 4 - Defending your Life

Postby Bec666 on Sat Oct 15, 2011 2:11 pm

Nice post Ruth. I don't think they have wrapped Sam's fallen wall up totally. I noticed in the very beginning when he got out of the car. He stopped and squeezed his injured hand. He sort of froze for a second then shook it off. So he's still zoning out,they just don't make such a big thing of it. And he did tell Dean he saw Lucifer while brushing his teeth. :)

As for Dean's feelings towards Sam, I have no doubt he loves him. That final scene in Season 6 when Sam was unconscious on the cot and Dean was talking to him. :wub: But the writers seem to have decided that Dean needs to be this teary eyed hand wringing shell this season. Why I don't know, cause it's so not Dean. Hopefully they will wake up soon and realize that.

I miss the brothers being brothers and fighting a monster of the week. Still I enjoyed this one. It had a bit of that feel to it.
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Re: Season 7 - Episode 4 - Defending your Life

Postby Pigeon666 on Sat Oct 15, 2011 2:37 pm

This felt like classic Supernatural. Much better than the last episode for me.

At the start, I liked how theyre not just getting rid of Sam's hallucinations. And also..."Hey. License to kill!"

Did not like Dean's scene at the bar. I'm worried that alchohol will be a serious problem for a while, and he referenced "happy pills" at one point.

Osiris was a very interesting god...they were able to stick close to the mythology while showcasing him.
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Re: Season 7 - Episode 4 - Defending your Life

Postby CLDeangrl on Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:11 pm

Couldn't agree more on most everything that's been said. Interesting that you brought up the drinking, Pigeon, that's been bugging me for a while really. I get that Dean's carrying around all this emotional baggage, but just disappearing into a bottle is SO not him. They started that in Season 4 when he first came back from Hell, as a way of masking his feelings about all that, and I held off on worrying about it because I figured it would just be a speed bump and he'd get past it, but it's only gotten worse. Even Sam is starting to give him looks and make remarks about it, like last night when he was going to the bar where the first victim was found "To work or to drink?" Sam asks. Dean deserves better than to be turned into a self torturing sot who spends his life in a bottle. That is NOT him.

And I'm hoping when they do have him come clean about the Amy thing it doesn't send Sam into another spiral because he's so intent on equating Amy the human looking monster with himself, the human with the "monster within". I'm really tired of the self torture when it comes to Sam too. That's why I was so glad to hear him saying he felt like he'd paid his dues and didn't have to be guilty anymore. That's good...but you don't have to consider yourself a bad person either, Sam...remember that, PLEASE!

And yes, I'd really like them to get back to the two brothers, TOGETHER, on the road kicking evil thing ass...that's what makes this show so amazing. A little emo stuff thrown in is always good, but I think they've gotten a little TOO caught up in the emo for their own good. We get it, Sera, really...enough already! :P

-- Merged Double Post --

Oh and I forgot to mention...I definitely agree with bec when it comes to Dean loving Sam. There is no doubt in my mind that he still does. Would he have gone through everything he did with Death to get Sam's soul back if he didn't? And that moment over Sam's cot...gulp! If that wasn't pure brotherly love, what is? Not everyone expresses their emotions the same way, and remember way back before they made him into a hand wringing wreck, Dean was still the "no chick flick" guy, who hated that kind of stuff. So it's not like he's suddenly going to turn all "I love you, man!" now. Wouldn't be true to his character. But he shows it...in his own way. Just like Sam does in his.
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Re: Season 7 - Episode 4 - Defending your Life

Postby Ruth78 on Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:01 pm

Yup - one of the many reasons I don't like solo story arcs is because they end up being a kind of character assassination, and Dean has already referred to stuffing his bad memories down with alcohol and bouts of violence, so I really hope the writers aren't planning to turn him into a drunken, violent mess ( you guys have actually got me worried about this now, since there
have been a few hints recently that John relied heavily on booze too - whereas there was no clue to this in the early days).
I agree - enough emo; it's not a soap opera!
Also about Sam - like I said, I like this version of him, and I don't think he'll be toooo hard on Dean when he learns the truth, but when he uttered the fatal words "I feel good", I did have a moment where I thought "uh-oh, well the writers will put paid to THAT before too long"!
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Re: Season 7 - Episode 4 - Defending your Life

Postby Pigeon666 on Sun Oct 16, 2011 3:56 pm

Interesting point about John's drinking, Ruth. Actually, the only time I heard it was in last weeks episode - where Sam talks to Amy about it. It makes sense, but it seems more and more like theyre heading down a path where drinking will be a very real problem, as Sam is taking alot of notice to it. It was easier to count the scenes where Dean wasn`t drinking in that episode.
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Re: Season 7 - Episode 4 - Defending your Life

Postby trackerem on Sun Oct 16, 2011 5:28 pm

such a transitional ep to me! moral of this story is dean's wear & tear, an arc that has been developed for awhile now! poor sam! him & his hand rubbing!
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Re: Season 7 - Episode 4 - Defending your Life

Postby CLDeangrl on Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:57 pm

Actually, if you recall, they did reference John's drinking way back in Season One, in "Nightmare", when they met psychic kid Max Miller and he described his childhood with a drunken, abusive father. Sam said they were lucky to have avoided Max's fate, "a little more drinking and a little less demon hunting and we might have wound up like Max." That made it sound like John hadn't been all that bad. And in the pilot, when Sam was going off with Dean suddenly to look for Dad and wanted to make an excuse about it to Jess, he said his father was probably just off drinking somewhere..."hanging out with Jim, Jack and Jose"..the fact that he was using drinking as an excuse again made it seem like it wasn't actually what John would be doing, Sam just didn't want Jess to know the truth. So I think up to now, Dad's been portrayed as something other than a total drunk. Why they'd change it now is beyond me.

And Bobby's been shown to drink quite a bit too. It's obviously part and parcel of the hunters life with everything they face on a regular basis. That's why in "The French Mistake" last Season they referred to booze as "hunter's helper". I can understand that, but I hate that they are having it become such a huge part of Dean's character.

I just really hope they'll let him come out from under all this weight eventually before it takes him down altogether.
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Re: Season 7 - Episode 4 - Defending your Life

Postby PandaVamp on Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:16 pm

STAFF NOTICE!
Hello. :) Please, remember to discuss spoilers only in the Supernatural Spoilers section. Have moved all the spoiler/speculation talk to this new location viewtopic.php?f=41&t=23218, but be aware next time I'll just delete them. Thank you for your cooperation.
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Re: Season 7 - Episode 4 - Defending your Life

Postby CLDeangrl on Thu Oct 20, 2011 7:11 pm

Ok, color me stupid, but just what exactly in this thread qualified as a spoiler?! I looked at the part you moved and I don't see one mention of one actual detail from an upcoming episode, just speculation on the fans' part, and pretty general speculation at that!

I don't mean to cause trouble, but I seriously don't understand what you people consider to be spoilers. I always assumed spoilers were ACTUAL details from ACTUAL not previously aired episodes. So where was there anything like that in this thread?

Sorry for being so dense, but if you're going to arbitrarily cut discussions in half or threaten to delete posts, it might help if you gave us a direct example of what was so offensive so we could avoid it in the future, because I'm honestly not seeing it.
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Re: Season 7 - Episode 4 - Defending your Life

Postby Bec666 on Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:09 am

I don't know.. Color me stupid too. I mean this board is here to discuss the show.... :unsure: :unsure:
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Re: Season 7 - Episode 4 - Defending your Life

Postby PandaVamp on Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:53 am

STAFF NOTICE!
There's a reason why we ask you guys to PM us, and it's because that way things come to our attention and we can address them faster, apart from not disturbing the threads with forum rules discussion.

Anyway, I'll make it clearer. In my post above I wrote "spoilers/speculation". If a poster says "I read a major writer said...", that's a potential spoiler, and same goes to any speculation derived from that initial post, which means it should be discussed in the Spoilers section of this sub-forum, that's the function that section serves. But in case you don't want to move, you could also use another function we have on these forums and that's the "spoiler tags".

Anything that refers to future plot development, should go in the Spoilers section, even if it's a minor thing, unless you are only commenting about something you would like/wouldn't like to happen on the show but comes directly from your perspective, meaning, not something you read somewhere else (spoilers site, other forums, interviews, etc).

We have created all these functions and sub-forums simply as a matter of common courtesy to others who might read these forums and don't want to find out what's/what might be coming until the episodes air.

I hope it is clear now, but in case of doubt, please, PM me or any other mod. Further discussion on this matter inside this thread will be removed.

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