Episode 5.15 - Before and After - Spoiler Discussion

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Re: Episode 5.15 - Before and After - Spoiler Discussion

Postby Taylijane on Sun Feb 08, 2009 3:27 am

greymaters wrote:My choices for the fantasy questions are:

1-cookies
2-saxophone
3-a god
4-pediatrics
5-Lexie

Sneak Peek,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pG-xbtJ1RsQ

Is that something significant, when Addi say "I put you in a small box"
???
in comparison to the small box Derek is carrying around with the engagement ring in it?
???
Then Addi says "I need to take you out of the small box"

Derek needs to take out the ring, and GIVE IT TO MEREDITH! :whistle: :D

I think Addison is being so cruel and selfish - all these neuro specialists say that it is inoperable - it is now worse than we the other specialists say Archer - the parasites have multiplied to more (8) places in the brain - Derek says he cannot remove them without rupturing them (meaning they would just spread further faster). To put that kind of pressure on Derek - to ask him to be extraordinary is cruel and selfish. :cry:
Now two things come to mind - Meredith + Derek = Extraordinary - so I am hoping that he can do it WITH Meredith - they will find a way (mostly Mere will come up with something like viruses that eat parasites or Combantrin (worm medicine) for the brain, or something :P ). Big spoilers ahead for PrP. We know that
Spoiler (Click to reveal/hide)
he lives
because an episode summary for PrP (epi 19, I think)
Spoiler (Click to reveal/hide)
has Archer going back to his old ways and annoying Addison - so he lives

I think it will be bad news for Jen and the tension is saving Archer will be the strain on Derek so in 5.18 we have Meredith having to Stand By Me (standing by Derek). :wub:
"Did you say it? 'I love you. I don't ever want to live without you. You changed my life.' Did you say it? Make a plan. Set a goal. Work toward it, but every now and then, look around; Drink it in 'cause this is it. It might all be gone tomorrow."

Meredith S5E24
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Re: Episode 5.15 - Before and After - Spoiler Discussion

Postby hbshopgirl on Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:13 am

Okay so this is what I think: I think that before this scene Derek came in the room and said he can't operate and he and Addie get in this fight. By how they are talking and how it's kinda awkward you can tell she got mad at him. You have to feel for Addie, this guy has this emotional affair right in front of you, he never even tried to hide it. She has been trying to move on she knows he loves Meredith and when she came back last season she encouraged them to get together and she still is for them but now her brother is dying. She and Derek are on fine terms but I am sure it was a little hard to call him because its her ex. The box metaphor is so sad I feel for her. As much as I like MerDer I have always had a thing for Addek. This has nothing to do with MerDer. How is she being selfish. She loves her brother and would do anything for him and so that's why she called Derek, she knew he could help her. Derek says he can't, it seems like he has given up on Archer on Addie. I haven't watched the episode yet so I can't judge his actions yet but it seems like he isn't trying hard enough. This isn't just some patient, this is his ex wife, his family for 11 years' brother, Archer. He is also close with Archer, they are friends I am sure, so why is he giving up so fast. We haven't seen how long it takes him to say he can't operate but he is not trying harder.
I can't relate to feeling like a loser and not being able to get out of bed because my husband had a emotional and physical affair with someone right in front of me, but I can imagine how she feels, how she tried to make him seem like not the genius and charismatic guy he is so she can feel better and move on. And now she needs him to be the man she knows he is, the man she married 11 years ago. I'm sure that man wouldn't give up this fast.
Addison is not at all selfish, its her brother for gods sake. If my sibling was sick, I would do anything to make them better. You really think she's being cruel? How is she being cruel. Your MerDer shipness is clouding your judgment I think :hmm:
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Re: Episode 5.15 - Before and After - Spoiler Discussion

Postby Taylijane on Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:19 am

hbshopgirl wrote:Okay so this is what I think: I think that before this scene Derek came in the room and said he can't operate and he and Addie get in this fight. By how they are talking and how it's kinda awkward you can tell she got mad at him. You have to feel for Addie, this guy has this emotional affair right in front of you, he never even tried to hide it. She has been trying to move on she knows he loves Meredith and when she came back last season she encouraged them to get together and she still is for them but now her brother is dying. She and Derek are on fine terms but I am sure it was a little hard to call him because its her ex. The box metaphor is so sad I feel for her. As much as I like MerDer I have always had a thing for Addek. This has nothing to do with MerDer. How is she being selfish. She loves her brother and would do anything for him and so that's why she called Derek, she knew he could help her. Derek says he can't, it seems like he has given up on Archer on Addie. I haven't watched the episode yet so I can't judge his actions yet but it seems like he isn't trying hard enough. This isn't just some patient, this is his ex wife, his family for 11 years' brother, Archer. He is also close with Archer, they are friends I am sure, so why is he giving up so fast. We haven't seen how long it takes him to say he can't operate but he is not trying harder.
I can't relate to feeling like a loser and not being able to get out of bed because my husband had a emotional and physical affair with someone right in front of me, but I can imagine how she feels, how she tried to make him seem like not the genius and charismatic guy he is so she can feel better and move on. And now she needs him to be the man she knows he is, the man she married 11 years ago. I'm sure that man wouldn't give up this fast.
Addison is not at all selfish, its her brother for gods sake. If my sibling was sick, I would do anything to make them better. You really think she's being cruel? How is she being cruel. Your MerDer shipness is clouding your judgment I think :hmm:


hbshopgirl, I appreciate what you are saying. I try very hard to be fair and to see two sides to all arguments. I think asking Derek to be "God" is asking too much of him and that is where she is being cruel and selfish - if you were in Derek's position would you think it was fair to be asked to be more than human - to be put in that position. I think if she had of said "Derek, I love and need my brother. I want you to try everything you humanly can to save him. I want you to use all of your brilliant skills to save MY brother. I don't want you to give up. I need you to try. Try everything." Not ask him to be "God". The selfishness comes from not considering the other person only considering her own needs. Imagine how Derek is feeling - this was his brother-in-law - his friend. Addison is someone he used to love and probably still has a love for.

And as for Derek "having an emotional affair right under her nose" - excuse me!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - who moved to Seattle and was separated from his wife and who followed him and settled there and stayed there; even when he asked her to go? She stayed, yes, then put a guilt trip on him and he being the "good guy" felt the had to try one more time and it did not work - he tried - she tried and it did not work!!!! Who had the affair with his best friend that started all this? I am sorry, I am not letting my Mere/Derek shippiness cloud my judgment with regard to Derek and Addison. They gave it their best shot as far as I am concerned. Meredith stood back and tried to get on with her life and it was Derek who would not let her. Addison saw that. They were OVER. I hope that sr leaves them over.

I am very offended that you said that. :( I do try to be fair. And I am entitled to my opinion. You could ask if I felt my shippiness was clouding my opinion not state "your MerDer shipness is clouding your judgment I think". I am deeply offended.

I also understand that we are all entitled to have an opinion and a differing opinion from others. I try very hard to make sure what I say is of no offense to others and I try to stay polite and respect that others may have a differing opinion to but I really felt I needed to speak severely on this. I don't usually let myself say things like this to another poster, I usually let it pass but I am hurt by your comments of me.
"Did you say it? 'I love you. I don't ever want to live without you. You changed my life.' Did you say it? Make a plan. Set a goal. Work toward it, but every now and then, look around; Drink it in 'cause this is it. It might all be gone tomorrow."

Meredith S5E24
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Re: Episode 5.15 - Before and After - Spoiler Discussion

Postby hbshopgirl on Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:11 am

Uhmm I am sorry I offended you..... I wasn't trying to be mean or anything. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. You are more then right to state yours, I was just stating mine. About the shipness comment,I didn't mean for it to sound like I was mocking you or putting you down at all. It came off wrong. :unsure: Taylijane, I hope you can forgive me what I said, my opinion really had nothing to do with you, it was just my thoughts on the whole situation it wasn't meant to put you down for your beliefs and opinions. When I said "your MerDer shippness it was meant as a joke actually, I was trying to think of a way to say it right, I was being sarcastic, I have read your opinions on things and I know you can be objective about other topics so I meant it as a joke. I didn't mean it as a way to belittle your like MerDer, I like them too, I just like other couples are well. With all shows I don't take a huge stance on couples. I go back and forth, so sometimes it's hard for me to see something one-sided. Again I am sorry if I hurt you and offended you. I hope you can forgive me and know that what I said wasn't personal at all. I really hope we can move on and go back to discussing Grey's because I have come to really enjoy posting about this show on this forum. I've always been a lurker until this forum where I felt comfortable to post my thoughts and opinions and not get embarrassed or whatever like would in the past. Again Taylijane, I am sorry that I offended you that was the last thing on my mind, to put you down.
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Re: Episode 5.15 - Before and After - Spoiler Discussion

Postby Taylijane on Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:13 am

hbshopgirl wrote:Uhmm I am sorry I offended you..... I wasn't trying to be mean or anything. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. You are more then right to state yours, I was just stating mine. About the shipness comment,I didn't mean for it to sound like I was mocking you or putting you down at all. It came off wrong. :unsure: Taylijane, I hope you can forgive me what I said, my opinion really had nothing to do with you, it was just my thoughts on the whole situation it wasn't meant to put you down for your beliefs and opinions. When I said "your MerDer shippness it was meant as a joke actually, I was trying to think of a way to say it right, I was being sarcastic, I have read your opinions on things and I know you can be objective about other topics so I meant it as a joke. I didn't mean it as a way to belittle your like MerDer, I like them too, I just like other couples are well. With all shows I don't take a huge stance on couples. I go back and forth, so sometimes it's hard for me to see something one-sided. Again I am sorry if I hurt you and offended you. I hope you can forgive me and know that what I said wasn't personal at all. I really hope we can move on and go back to discussing Grey's because I have come to really enjoy posting about this show on this forum. I've always been a lurker until this forum where I felt comfortable to post my thoughts and opinions and not get embarrassed or whatever like would in the past. Again Taylijane, I am sorry that I offended you that was the last thing on my mind, to put you down.


Okay, consider it forgotten. My response was not meant to embarrass you but to justify my side of what I was saying and that I try very hard not to let biases offend others on the board. I accept you meant your post as a joke but it did not "sound" that way. I also know how difficult it is to post after being a lurker and I hope you do not feel uncomfortable to post and we can forget it. If you would like for us both to go back and delete our posts I will do that and you can delete yours thus removing any embarrassment for you. You tell me and I will do that if you wish and you can delete yours.
"Did you say it? 'I love you. I don't ever want to live without you. You changed my life.' Did you say it? Make a plan. Set a goal. Work toward it, but every now and then, look around; Drink it in 'cause this is it. It might all be gone tomorrow."

Meredith S5E24
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Re: Episode 5.15 - Before and After - Spoiler Discussion

Postby Leliforever on Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:45 am

hello spoiler girlsIt's a wonderful sunny Sunday morning here ! I hope eveyone is doing fine!
Sorry for not posting but I was so districted reading a book ( which I haven't finished yet-I can give you the title if you want!)
Anyway,thanks everyone for the sneak peeks! I don't like the crossover thing at all because as much as I like addis I think it's going to be be an Addison-centric episode and we'll see her relatioship with derek blossom again (even though it will not mean anything-I hope!)
Still don't understand the whole tiny box thing she mentions :S :PP
When something begins,you generally have no idea how it's going to end...
The house you were going to sell becomes your home,the roomates you were forced to take in become your family...
And the one night stand you were determined to forget becomes the love of your life...
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Re: Episode 5.15 - Before and After - Spoiler Discussion

Postby McSunny on Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:56 pm

I have to say that the sneak with Addie/Derek bothered me. It's the whole "I want you to be a God" that sets the wrong tone. I don't blame Addie for being upset and wanting to do everything possible to save her brother but that is just OTT and melodramatic. Poor writing again.

It also bothers me that sr is dragging the marriage back out to guilt Derek with. It does just seem like a plot device to cause angst and delay the MerDer engagement and I resent that. I always resent when we are manipulated in that way.

So many of these stories could be told in a much more straightforward way and they would be much more compelling. That is what good writing does. Bad writing is just using gimmicks to try to tell the stories and it comes off as just that, bad writing with poorly done scenes.

I am a MerDer shipper, but I used to like Addie quite a bit. I've watched PrP because I liked Addie and also because I love some of their other cast but it has not been the same Addie. I don't know how they lost the essence of what made Addie who she was on GA but they have and they need to find that again. Otherwise, I'm afraid people are going to dislike what they see of Addie during the crossover and that is certainly not going to get people to watch PrP.
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Re: Episode 5.15 - Before and After - Spoiler Discussion

Postby greymaters on Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:52 pm

McSunny wrote:I have to say that the sneak with Addie/Derek bothered me. It's the whole "I want you to be a God" that sets the wrong tone. I don't blame Addie for being upset and wanting to do everything possible to save her brother but that is just OTT and melodramatic. Poor writing again.

It also bothers me that sr is dragging the marriage back out to guilt Derek with. It does just seem like a plot device to cause angst and delay the MerDer engagement and I resent that. I always resent when we are manipulated in that way.

So many of these stories could be told in a much more straightforward way and they would be much more compelling. That is what good writing does. Bad writing is just using gimmicks to try to tell the stories and it comes off as just that, bad writing with poorly done scenes.

I am a MerDer shipper, but I used to like Addie quite a bit. I've watched PrP because I liked Addie and also because I love some of their other cast but it has not been the same Addie. I don't know how they lost the essence of what made Addie who she was on GA but they have and they need to find that again. Otherwise, I'm afraid people are going to dislike what they see of Addie during the crossover and that is certainly not going to get people to watch PrP.


Linda, you should put this on writers blog comments, (or somewhere), that producers and writers (and maybe McPherson (sp) could get a hold of it. You wrote my thoughts, and many others as well. It is good to see, others are on the same page, as I am.
"It's important to tell the people you love how much you love them while they can hear you." Meredith
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Re: Episode 5.15 - Before and After - Spoiler Discussion

Postby md_em on Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:19 pm

greymaters wrote:
Is that something significant, when Addi say "I put you in a small box"
???
in comparison to the small box Derek is carrying around with the engagement ring in it?
???
Then Addi says "I need to take you out of the small box"

Derek needs to take out the ring, and GIVE IT TO MEREDITH! :whistle: :D


I like this one Donna :clap:
But you came back. Will to Alicia Season 1

Meredith wasn't a fling. She wasn't revenge. I fell in love with her. That doesn't go away because I decided to stay with you. Derek to Addison Season 2.
Did you say it? 'I love you. I don't ever want to live without you. You changed my life.' Did you say it? Make a plan. Set a goal. Work toward it, but every now and then, look around; Drink it in 'cause this is it. It might all be gone tomorrow. Mer voice over Season 5.
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Re: Episode 5.15 - Before and After - Spoiler Discussion

Postby Humbugged on Sun Feb 08, 2009 7:02 pm

My answers


a - Crafts (treasure hunt)
b - Sax (episode 4 -08 )
c - God
d - Peds
e - Lexie
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Re: Episode 5.15 - Before and After - Spoiler Discussion

Postby md_em on Sun Feb 08, 2009 7:32 pm

Humbugged wrote:My answers


a - Crafts (treasure hunt)
b - Sax (episode 4 -08 )
c - God
d - Peds
e - Lexie


Didn't recall for question 2 ... thanks (I need therefore to rewatch it)

My answer for the fantasy questions (up to now):

a. cookies
b. drums
c. god
d. pediatric
e. Lexie

Please, refrain from double posting. If you need to add something just after you posted, use the 'Edit' option. Thank you. :)
Last edited by PandaVamp on Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Double post.
But you came back. Will to Alicia Season 1

Meredith wasn't a fling. She wasn't revenge. I fell in love with her. That doesn't go away because I decided to stay with you. Derek to Addison Season 2.
Did you say it? 'I love you. I don't ever want to live without you. You changed my life.' Did you say it? Make a plan. Set a goal. Work toward it, but every now and then, look around; Drink it in 'cause this is it. It might all be gone tomorrow. Mer voice over Season 5.
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Re: Episode 5.15 - Before and After - Spoiler Discussion

Postby Humbugged on Sun Feb 08, 2009 7:42 pm

md_em wrote:
Humbugged wrote:My answers


a - Crafts (treasure hunt)
b - Sax (episode 4 -08 )
c - God
d - Peds
e - Lexie


Didn't recall for question 2 ... thanks (I need therefore to rewatch it)



Bailley had a freak out at Derek about the bus driver .And in the convo about derek and the afro :scared: :scared:
they talked about being in the school band he played sax she played oboe
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Re: Episode 5.15 - Before and After - Spoiler Discussion

Postby md_em on Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:54 pm

Humbugged wrote:
md_em wrote:
Humbugged wrote:My answers


a - Crafts (treasure hunt)
b - Sax (episode 4 -08 )
c - God
d - Peds
e - Lexie


Didn't recall for question 2 ... thanks (I need therefore to rewatch it)



Bailley had a freak out at Derek about the bus driver .And in the convo about derek and the afro :scared: :scared:
they talked about being in the school band he played sax she played oboe


I remember now. Thanks again :thumbsup:
But you came back. Will to Alicia Season 1

Meredith wasn't a fling. She wasn't revenge. I fell in love with her. That doesn't go away because I decided to stay with you. Derek to Addison Season 2.
Did you say it? 'I love you. I don't ever want to live without you. You changed my life.' Did you say it? Make a plan. Set a goal. Work toward it, but every now and then, look around; Drink it in 'cause this is it. It might all be gone tomorrow. Mer voice over Season 5.
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Re: Episode 5.15 - Before and After - Spoiler Discussion

Postby Taylijane on Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:15 am

greymaters wrote:
McSunny wrote:I have to say that the sneak with Addie/Derek bothered me. It's the whole "I want you to be a God" that sets the wrong tone. I don't blame Addie for being upset and wanting to do everything possible to save her brother but that is just OTT and melodramatic. Poor writing again.

It also bothers me that sr is dragging the marriage back out to guilt Derek with. It does just seem like a plot device to cause angst and delay the MerDer engagement and I resent that. I always resent when we are manipulated in that way.

So many of these stories could be told in a much more straightforward way and they would be much more compelling. That is what good writing does. Bad writing is just using gimmicks to try to tell the stories and it comes off as just that, bad writing with poorly done scenes.

I am a MerDer shipper, but I used to like Addie quite a bit. I've watched PrP because I liked Addie and also because I love some of their other cast but it has not been the same Addie. I don't know how they lost the essence of what made Addie who she was on GA but they have and they need to find that again. Otherwise, I'm afraid people are going to dislike what they see of Addie during the crossover and that is certainly not going to get people to watch PrP.


Linda, you should put this on writers blog comments, (or somewhere), that producers and writers (and maybe McPherson (sp) could get a hold of it. You wrote my thoughts, and many others as well. It is good to see, others are on the same page, as I am.

Sunny, I agree with Donna. You should put your comments on the writers blog - you won't be the only one voicing a similar opinion. There is a lot of criticism of the crossover - the misuse of a crossover. It failure to obtain what was the aim because of its greedy purpose. It has taken away from GA not added to it.
Very poor writing has been creeping into GA. As I commented on the "what did you think of 5.14" thread. The fact that we were asking if the Owentina (thanks Sunny, it still makes me smile :) ) in 5.14 was supposed to be humour or we hoped humour, tells us the writing was bad. In good writing we would have known, we would not be asking. :(
The inconsistency in Addison's character - paticularly if she is stunned by the proposed engagement.
But, i think the major complaint about the crossover is that sr is using it as another plot devise to delay positive movement of Meredith and Derek. It is the 1 step forward to 5 steps back sr waltz and it is getting very tiring and trying. I think it is time to get back to the bowels of this ship and hide. Vomit bowel in hand. :( :mad:
by Humbugged on Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:42 am

md_em wrote:

Humbugged wrote:My answers


a - Crafts (treasure hunt)
b - Sax (episode 4 -08 )
c - God
d - Peds
e - Lexie



Didn't recall for question 2 ... thanks (I need therefore to rewatch it)




Bailley had a freak out at Derek about the bus driver .And in the convo about derek and the afro :scared: :scared:
they talked about being in the school band he played sax she played oboe

Well remembered, Humbugged. I remember the scene and could remember he was a band geek but could not remember what he played. Well done! :)
"Did you say it? 'I love you. I don't ever want to live without you. You changed my life.' Did you say it? Make a plan. Set a goal. Work toward it, but every now and then, look around; Drink it in 'cause this is it. It might all be gone tomorrow."

Meredith S5E24
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Re: Episode 5.15 - Before and After - Spoiler Discussion

Postby McSunny on Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:28 am

I did actually post in the writers blog. First time I have done that in a long time. I didn't put all of those thoughts though so I think I will go back and put another entry. I just don't see how they can not have a clue as to what's going on and how it is affecting their audience.

We've talked and heard about the on set tension and I have to believe that starts at the top. You know there are writers in that room that see it like we are seeing it and yet they have to work under sr who is so delusional about "her" show. Don't you know that is causing all kinds of tension and that is just radiating out to the set because the actors sure know what is going on.

I know folks have been saying, for sometime, that sr just needs to be removed and I think, at this point, that is the only way this ship could possibly be righted.
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