[Official] Fringe Ep. 4.10 Discussion

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[Official] Fringe Ep. 4.10 Discussion

Postby PandaVamp on Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:28 am

"Forced Perspective"

9:00PM

Discuss the latest Fringe Episode here.




A MYSTERIOUS GIRL CAN SEE THE FUTURE ON AN ALL-NEW "FRINGE" FRIDAY, JANUARY 27, ON FOX

Olivia continues to cope with the ominous warning from the Observers, while Peter and the team track a girl with the mysterious ability to predict death in the all-new "Forced Perspective" episode of FRINGE airing Friday, Jan. 27 (9:00-10:00 PM ET/PT) on FOX. (FR-410) (TV-14 L, V)

Cast: Anna Torv as Olivia Dunham; Joshua Jackson as Peter Bishop; John Noble as Walter Bishop; Lance Reddick as Phillip Broyles; Blair Brown as Nina Sharp; Jasika Nicole as Astrid Farnsworth; Seth Gabel as Lincoln Lee

Source: FOX


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Re: [Official] Fringe Ep. 4.10 Discussion

Postby WJames on Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:11 pm

I'll break the ice. :PP

By saying that I absolutely LOVED this episode! It was COTW, but mythos stuff was also there to keep us on our toes. The guest actors were top notch, but the most credit should really go to the actress playing Emily because I had a tear in my eye when she passed away on that bench. :cry:

The gang is working together again! :w00t: Walter was hilarious with his bladder issue, Peter is again a vital part of the Fringe team and Broyles has absolute confidence in him, which is nice. Olivia and Nina have great chemistry and it is spooky and fun at the same time watching the dynamics between those two while knowing that Nina is "apparently bad", or is she??? Maybe she has an unknown agenda that will spoil DRJ's plans? Maybe there is even a bigger baddie out there that we haven't seen yet...Mr. X anyone?

I wonder why Olivia didn't tell Peter what September had told her?! What do you think people?

9.5/10
Loved it!

The promo for the next one looks fun, fun, fun!!! :thumbsup:
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Re: [Official] Fringe Ep. 4.10 Discussion

Postby DarthLocke on Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:15 pm

At glace I thought this was just an alright episode, but looking closer this episode ties into so many other episodes and offers a more blatant question about course correction, it blew my mind!

The most obvious episode is "The Ghost Network". Obviously both Fringe cased-characters can draw things before they happen. In TGH we get an explanation about sound waves and the brains capacity to translate those into images. Back in season three the plot with Peter and Machine, the schematics, and the prophecy reminded me of the film "Contact" based on the novel by great scientist Carl Sagon! In "Contact" a SETI worker, Dr. Arroway, is listening to the universe for pulsating stars....she hears one that's exceptionally loud named Veta. The soon discover that there are TWO pulses, and the second is pulse/wave which gives schematics of a 3D map to build a time machine! This is not unlike both what we discover in "6955KHz" , in which the number stations, pick the the previous iteration's frequency to locate the machine parts, but also a second frequency appears by killing people (Walternate wanted to lead them to the machine parts), and also not like "The Last Sam Weiss" where it's revealed by an extension of scripture, that Olivia completes a 3D-map relating to Peter and the Machine, as she is "the crowbar".

Going back to Mr. X, I believe Supermodel gave us a GREAT clue in the last discussion thread. In the 2026 timeline, Walternate was the one to kill that blue Olivia. However, I argued that Walternate would not be the villain in the season 4 timeline and so far I am right. I have been discussing the idea of role shifts being apart of the fates of the universe. So if we want to find out who Mr. X is going to be in this time line, then we have to look for people who either relate to and/or are in the role of Walternate.

Supermodel sheds some great ideas about Peter becoming Mr. X, and she could be right. We don't know if this blue Walter's first response to Peter's arrival is a good six sense.

However, one thing we must remember about the 2026 Walternate "The Day We Died") is that he was leader of a terrorist group, The End of Dayers....a group blowing holes in the universe that lead to other periods of time within the timeline, and by extension is how the first people/Peters have taken the machine(s) back in time so they can be unearthed for the next iteration. Easily we can mirror the repeated behavior of The End of Dayers to our season1-3 timeline's ZFT.

So it's curious that we have Jones and his new shapeshifters trying to get materials that could blow a whole in the universe. I keep thinking Nina is the Walternate of the piece, but maybe like before, Jones has or will brake away from Massive Dynamic and he listens to someone else, or one his shapeshifters may chose to take his place. In our timeline, Jones had mad point that ZFT had many factions and that he was just one small part of it.

But this episode, with this blue Olivia's now second brush with death this time via Mr. Duncan and his bomb, is also similar to when our blue Olivia had to deactivate Jone's bomb. ("Ability").

But this leads to a bigger question about Peter, the Observers, and course correction.
It wasn't till the episode "Stowaway" in which it was even suggested that these universes may actually harbor some kind of stricter course correction. Dana Grey couldn't die and be with her family. Everytime she tried she would kill somebody else! --It wasn't until she save tons of people on a train by taking the bomb away, that she could "move on"....The episode suggested tied back to the course correction of LOST there were many times characters could not die until they fulfilled some purpose, to act out some event. Michael Dawson is probably the best example. But this Fringe episode more or less tied back to "Live Together, Die Alone", when Desmond first time travels back to possibly another timeline's 1999, in which she shares with him the knowledge of seeing things ahead of time, but not being able to stop it, as a man in red converse dies at a construction site, just as the first person we meet Emily give's the drawing to does...

Desmond couldn't stop Charlie Pace from dying, but his knowledge did change how he died, and specifically for what purpose, as Charlie became aware that he was going to die, could he choose for what reason he was going to die for. And one can argue that this was a progression that lead to FS's group in the church to "move onto" the next life/timeline.

"Force Perspective" almost gives another aspect to this. The idea that if knowing ahead of time actually causes the death, or if it will just happen another way like with Charlie Pace?? It could also be what is happening with Olivia. That Mr X is changing identity, because Peter is here. But it could also be that this Olivia could die because Peter is here.

The bigger question then is if Peter's presence is good or bad, and if he can actually change fate in this timeline. Part of me thinks that he can. --The building that Duncan's bombs were in was a courthouse. The cover for Peter and the Machine pt 3 is a statue of an Observer who appears more like a JUDGE, he holds a sword and a scale.

IMO Peter is wrong about the Observers in many respects. I think they do time travel, but that the time travel ability is advanced in the sense they can "see", and or get waves to interpret visions of all time, but I also believe they can travel like anyone else too. He also thinks that what the predict has to be the truth and if we go back to "The Firefly" we know that's not true. --September says,

OBSERVER: There are things that I know. But there are things that I do not. Various possible futures are happening simultaneously. I can tell you all of them, but I cannot tell you which one of them will come to pass. Because every action causes ripples, consequences both obvious and... unforeseen. For instance... after I pulled you and Peter from the icy lake, later that summer, Peter caught a firefly. I could not have known he would do that or that because he did a young girl three miles away would not. And so later that night, she would continue looking, trying to find another one. I could not have known that when she did not come home, her father would go out looking for her, driving in the rain, so that when the traffic light turned red, his truck skidded through the intersection at Harvard Yard, killing a pedestrian.



Going back to this, it makes sense because some futures have already happened, but it's also possible that like with our season 1-3 timeline that it's future isn't written, because it's still in motion...that universe hasn't ended yet, but it remains to be seen if Peter's time travel has any effect on being able to reverse what may have already happened "here'...

Going back to LOST the one thing we know that can happen in both places is that people can be brought back from the dead, but even this idea presented to us in "Stowaway" and "LSD", with William Bell also ties into body snatching and replacements (The Shapeshifters and the Observers). We know that death isn't the end in the FRINGE universe, like LOST, as said by Fringe's Dana Grey, moving on/death might just be going to another timeline. I keep thinking that Peter might have sacrifice himself...but maybe he can still return if he has an empty vessel to return to...(Calling all smoke monsters!)

On another note I wonder if we will be time traveling to 1919?? It occurred to me when they found traces of a 1919 Spanish flu in the Observer's blood, that Robert Bishop in our timeline was born in 1912, so he would be turning 7.
It also occurred to me that in the Fringe Prequel comic when Walter and Bell build a time machine at the same time as some Nazi Germany, the machines become n'sync and cause Walter and Bell to go there! They get into trouble, and Walter's father helps them get rid of Hitler and helps them get "home", just like these Walters promise to help Peter get "home"...

---------------

So I just went to read more about Carl Sagan just because and I came across this little bit...

Sagan was a user and advocate of marijuana. Under the pseudonym "Mr. X", he contributed an essay about smoking cannabis to the 1971 book Marihuana Reconsidered.[53][54] The essay explained that marijuana use had helped to inspire some of Sagan's works and enhance sensual and intellectual experiences. After Sagan's death, his friend Lester Grinspoon disclosed this information to Sagan's biographer, Keay Davidson. The publishing of the biography, Carl Sagan: A Life, in 1999 brought media attention to this aspect of Sagan's life.[55][56][57] Not long after his death, widow Ann Druyan had gone on to preside over the board of directors of NORML, a foundation dedicated to reforming cannabis laws.


It's strange that our Mr. X related to drugs too, no?
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Re: [Official] Fringe Ep. 4.10 Discussion

Postby Thirty-Fiver on Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:42 pm

Really liked the COTW this episode.

I'm thinking Emily might've had that stroke because her vision didn't come true. :hmm:
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Re: [Official] Fringe Ep. 4.10 Discussion

Postby Xindilini on Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:57 pm

Nina is at Olivia's when the observer is outside watching.

Something is about to happen.
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Re: [Official] Fringe Ep. 4.10 Discussion

Postby JacobsMom on Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:09 pm

"Forced Perspective"

I really liked this one! :thumbsup: Anytime we get a story line concerning Fate vs Free Will, I'm hooked immediately.

I thought right back to season 2 and "White Tulip" when Emily mentions to Peter that she tries to let people know of their fate so that maybe they just might be able to say goodbye or "I love you" to those that really matter. She knows that so far she hasn't been able to stop the events and I was really curious as to what happened when her Dad mentioned the time when she was being tested (MD??) and what occurred then. I guess I sort of associated Emily's abilities with those of The Observers to a point. The Observers are seeing these events happen in all times but in a way, so is Emily. Just like Walter explained, Emily's brain is somehow picking up on these future events that are being sent backwards in time. Of course, Emily is predicting them with complete accuracy as The Observers are only seeing them in that one time frame as a possibility.

I think that what made this episode so good was the fact that everyone is at last working together as a team, including Peter. I loved seeing Walter and Peter together in the lab working....just like old times! :) My favorite scene of all had to be when Walter and the team worked with Emily to help her. The care that Walter gave her was wonderful and Peter was there to help Walter trust in himself again!

Another similarity to "White Tulip" was the mention of God. Emily and her Dad speak of her weird gift as something God must have wanted her to have. Then in the end, we hear her believe this at last, using her gift to be able to stop the bombing with the help of the Fringe team. So to Emily it was her Fate to live to this moment in time.

The opposite was true for Duncan and his bomb. Olivia convinced him that it wasn't Fate that he had to follow. He could chose to stop his actions with Free Will and save them all right there. As much as Olivia wants to believe in what The Observer told her, I think that she was willing to change her views at this point. Later now though Peter gives her new information on these Observers and I think she went right back to wondering if she will be fated to die as he said.

One thing I did notice was that Emily didn't get an immediate sense of Olivia's fate just like she does with all the others. I kept thinking that at any moment, Emily would say something and even when Olivia finally asked Emily about it at the lab, there was the interruption of her Dad showing up. Maybe there is no definite fate for Olivia after being with a person who does predict the future each time. It could also be that if everyone in every time line works together as they did in this episode, that Olivia's fate of death can be stopped.

Nina really showed her true colors when Olivia came to see her with news of Emily. The shock of the information Nina gave Olivia was interesting and I think by the time that Olivia left, Nina knew she had to do some serious work to fix what just happened. Seeing Nina show up at Olivia's apartment and gain Olivia's trust again was almost sort of sad. Olivia never did lose that trust as we see, but by then Nina was trying very hard to be that perfect mother she really should be. I don't trust Nina at all.

Best special effects in a long time with the scene of the bombing accident as Emily walks through in her vision! I thought that was well planned out and executed with her seeing the sign in Latin on the floor. Well done, Special Effects team of Fringe. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Good Lines:
"You've done it before Walter, you can do it again." Peter
"You have no idea what that does to a young girl." Dad to Olivia/Lincoln Lee...Olivia knows exactly
"They don't predict the future Olivia. They've already experienced it." Peter
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Re: [Official] Fringe Ep. 4.10 Discussion

Postby DarthLocke on Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:25 am

I was torn about Emily's reading of Olivia's fate, JacobsMom...When Olivia had asked her in the lab, Emily started to get a hum...but then it subsided when Lee and Peter interrupt them.

I feel like there might be a Charlie Pace kind of thing going on here with Olivia and this time line...that Mr. X might be changing by the minute so to speak, either because September changed the timeline by making Olivia aware of the possibility and/or because he also save Peter's life twice, which by extension could maybe help change her fate.

Despite Peter's sort of not really paying attention to her, September clearly has faith in Peter. And so do I!

And I have to correct something in may last post, this Olivia has had at least 3 big brush with death with U-Gene, Jones, and now Duncan...


I agree completely with your Nina Sharp comments as well, Jacobsmom. She is def bad news in this timeline!

Thirty-Fever, There are bunch of episodes that deal with nose bleeds! Going along with "The Box" and how Walter explains Emily is getting harmonic vibration rippling back from the future, may suggest something like radiation. But it could be Walter's right. Her brain just couldn't handle the information.

However, looking at also "Stowaway" the show is trying to set us up for a debate if the future of THIS timeline can be changed. IMO, because this timeline already had a future, might mean that changing all the outcomes might be hard to do. It's hard to say if Emily would have saved those people and died anyways with our with out Peter's arrival and/or Olivia's awareness to her death. It just depends what is already considered part of fate of this timeline, or repeated situations in many. --In some ways Emily mirrors Dana Gray, and they both mirror Peter...Are just filling a role, or are they actually having an effect? --Could their existence be the cause of not changing time?

WJames, I think this Olivia is much like our Blue Olivia. She doesn't always tell others what she is really feeling...We're at a point with her, where her trust only goes so far. She's not like our Olivia in the sense that she believes she can really love someone, but additionally unlike ours, she's very aware that her life might be at stake. She's in a rather precarious situation...a kind of cross roads with her beliefs and her identity.
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Re: [Official] Fringe Ep. 4.10 Discussion

Postby JacobsMom on Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:50 am

DarthLocke wrote: I think this Olivia is much like our Blue Olivia. She doesn't always tell others what she is really feeling...We're at a point with her, where her trust only goes so far. She's not like our Olivia in the sense that she believes she can really love someone, but additionally unlike ours, she's very aware that her life might be at stake. She's in a rather precarious situation...a kind of cross roads with her beliefs and her identity.


But did you notice the look on Peter's face when she lied to him? I think he knows that she did lie and he is using the knowledge of his relationship with Blue Olivia as it relates to this Olivia. If he already knows from what he saw in the future of his Olivia being killed, then he can apply that to what is happening in this universe too. Peter is here to help this universe fill in the gaps of information they don't have, which is what we have seen during most of this season.
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Re: [Official] Fringe Ep. 4.10 Discussion

Postby DarthLocke on Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:02 pm

JacobsMom wrote:
DarthLocke wrote: I think this Olivia is much like our Blue Olivia. She doesn't always tell others what she is really feeling...We're at a point with her, where her trust only goes so far. She's not like our Olivia in the sense that she believes she can really love someone, but additionally unlike ours, she's very aware that her life might be at stake. She's in a rather precarious situation...a kind of cross roads with her beliefs and her identity.


But did you notice the look on Peter's face when she lied to him? I think he knows that she did lie and he is using the knowledge of his relationship with Blue Olivia as it relates to this Olivia. If he already knows from what he saw in the future of his Olivia being killed, then he can apply that to what is happening in this universe too. Peter is here to help this universe fill in the gaps of information they don't have, which is what we have seen during most of this season.


I agree and my statement was just to answer WJames question about this Olivia about why she wouldn't just tell him. (Because in that respect those Olivias are the same and the situation with her and Peter is like how it was when he and his Olivia first met)I think he will make the connection, but he really didn't until the end of the episode when she lied to him. He kind of just kind of hung back (like he did in "Ability" and like how he did towards the beginning of the series)...He didn't really help them in this episode. Hopefully he will make the bigger connection soon---the idea that this Olivia has the capacity to die too relates to his...He's on the verge of realizing WHY he needs to help these people.
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Re: [Official] Fringe Ep. 4.10 Discussion

Postby SmokeyD on Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:32 am

I know i've been remiss and absent here as of late. (New job/new hours) but i gotta wonder outloud on two things... 1) Who shot the Observer? And why?... 2) Whatever happened to Sam Weiss and not trusting him? Is he gonna pop up again in this reality?....

Doing this from my phone is not fun.... So all apologies for spelling and slop.. :cursing: .
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Re: [Official] Fringe Ep. 4.10 Discussion

Postby DarthLocke on Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:01 am

SmokeyD wrote:I know i've been remiss and absent here as of late. (New job/new hours) but i gotta wonder outloud on two things... 1) Who shot the Observer? And why?... 2) Whatever happened to Sam Weiss and not trusting him? Is he gonna pop up again in this reality?....

Doing this from my phone is not fun.... So all apologies for spelling and slop.. :cursing: .


It seems September was shot because he stopped one of the new humanoid-Jones-shapeshifters from killing Peter. --One was holding Peter at gun point and September interfered (Back to When You've Never Been)...For what ever reason, it appears that this Nina and Jones are threatened by Peter's arrival to this timeline...

PS: So glad to see you here again! :)
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